Colt Going Down? Market says ...

[2ifbyC]

There are a number of recent articles that predict the impending doom of Colt. It was pointed out that Colt is a union shop so Obama could step in and offer a bailout like he did with the UAW; of course that was stated tongue-in-cheek. The best article I read on the series of missteps taken by Colt over the years is in the article below:
http://www.bloomberg.com/bw/article...ers-owners-have-led-it-to-crisis-after-crisis

Many companies come and go but those that die who embody America’s fierce individualism and entrepreneurial spirt are difficult to digest. It’s sad to see that the Colt Peacemaker, the gun that won the West, is now on a pacemaker.

 

[MAKster]

Colt's problems are not caused by unions or geography. Their problem is that they haven't had a successful new product in 50 years and everything they sell is a commodity manufactured by dozens of other companies for less money. And add to that the hundreds of millions of dollars in special dividends the owners paid to themselves and stuck the debt on Colt's balance sheet.

 

[RustyShackelford]

S&W, Colt, Florida...

I'm curious to know how much $$$ it would take to buy Colt or Colt & all its related holdings flat out. In USD(US dollars).
Id guess & say Colt would sell for hundreds of millions, maybe $100-200mil.
I'm not a finance guy.

I am still surprised how Smith & Wesson went for about $12-15mil(USD) around 2000, .
That seems extremely low, even for 2000 era $$$.
Colt is still stumbling and screwing around with the new Kissimmee FL production site.
The state of Florida and county officials aren't very happy with Colt's mess.

 

[Blade First]

What will the fanboys who think the current loss leader by Colt's is the best
AR for the money do when the privately-held company surrenders?

Once again, the ramifications of losing sweetheart deals from the fed.gov put the company in jeopardy.

"Someone will buy the name if they falter."

One of the most iconic symbols in the world no longer belongs to Colt's; the 'Rampant Colt' is, supposedly, owned by the State of Connecticut...the result of yet another earlier bailout.

 

[r1derbike]

I have been happy with my Colt purchase sometime back somewhere. It should last the rest of my life.

As an off-topic aside to the Indian Motorcycle fiasco(s) of the past, a great old movie called, "The World's Fastest Indian" with Anthony Hopkins is a great flick.

 

[Crawdad1]

When you borrow $150 million on a leveraged recapitalization and turn around and pay out $131 million of it to these so called 'Members", there is not much left to spend. I think someone went in there for the sole purpose to fill their own pockets and leave others holding the bag.


A. Uberti owned by Beretta could provide rough forgings or finished parts for that matter to the Beretta plant in America and legally place the 'Colt' stamp on the top of the barrel. But how much are they willing to pay for it.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

My latest new Colt is about 3 weeks old. I have about 1100 rds through it. It runs like a Swiss watch.

Yep, Worlds Greatest Indian is well, great. I saw it on the big screen.....Indian Motorcycles has been dead since 1953. The past 15 years of abominations wearing the same name have largely been a joke.

 

[wojownik]

I have Colt 1911s and ARs - all have run flawlessly out of the box for years now.

So, given this dicussion, if y'all had the funds to buy just ONE item (AR or 1911) from Colt, whch would you buy?

 

[ColtPythonElite]

Gold Cup National Match

 

[TennJed]

At the end of the day, I really don't much care if "Colt" goes down, and quite frankly don't think it's fair that they keep getting bailed out time after time. Why? It's clear they can't handle their finances, and there current product range is... boring... to say the very least.

Colt is a SHADOW of the former company it once was, the real Colt died years ago.

JMHO, YMMV.

Why isn't it "fair"?

 

[HorseSoldier]

Colt's problems are not caused by unions or geography. Their problem is that they haven't had a successful new product in 50 years and everything they sell is a commodity manufactured by dozens of other companies for less money. And add to that the hundreds of millions of dollars in special dividends the owners paid to themselves and stuck the debt on Colt's balance sheet.

Yep, mismanaged into the ground by a combination of over-reliance on .gov contracts and a serious lack of marketing acumen and innovation for the civilian market (as well as serious ups and downs in terms of quality).

 

[Crawdad1]

".......In the Colt factory, ...........rows of hulking machines, some computer-controlled, others surprisingly antiquated, hum with activity."

This is where the money from the leveraged recapitalizations should have went, updating Colt's equipment, and not into 'Members' pockets. Perfectly legal however a shame but perfectly legal.

 

[CoalTrain49]

So, given this dicussion, if y'all had the funds to buy just ONE item (AR or 1911) from Colt, whch would you buy?

GCNM. Probably pick one up soon and set it aside for the guy who has to have a NIB pre 2016 in a few years.

 

[375supermag]

hi...

I have three Colt's...a nickle Combat Commander and two Troopers.

All are good quality accurate handguns. I would buy a Python or Anaconda if the right deal came along. Unfortunately, I seldom see one for sale locally and they are always priced as if they were made of gold or titanium.

As far as 1873-pattern revolvers go, I think I'll stick with the Uberti/Cimarron products. I like them, the fit and quality are more than acceptable and they look and feel like a SAA should. I fully intend to acquire at least a couple more. At their current price point, the Cattleman series are affordable(c.$480 at the LGS) and give one that nostalgic feeling and aura of the Old West without the need to take out a loan at the bank to afford one.

 

[ColtPythonElite]

GCNM. Probably pick one up soon and set it aside for the guy who has to have a NIB pre 2016 in a few years.

I just bought a new GCNM a few weeks ago. I shot it that day. I plan to buy a new 70 Series GCNM as soon as I find one. I plan to shoot it right away. To heck, with keeping currently production guns unfired and speculating .

 

[bannockburn]

Wouldn't mind getting a Gold Cup sometime soon to go along with the rest of my Colts. Will most definitely shoot it as: A) that's what it was designed for in terms of putting nice tight groups on target, and B) I'm more into shooting than collecting.

 

[PapaG]

I'm not jumping on Colt but have felt for a long time that they stopped caring about private customers about the time they got the big government contracts for M16s. They dropped in short order most of the things I liked.....revolvers like the Det Spl, Diamondback, Troopers, and so on along with theWoodsman, and then jacked prices on what they did keep.
I have a couple older Colts I will keep but nothing they offer now interests me..although a New Frontier in 44 special would get me to look. I would hate to see them go under but doubt a gun hating president would help make Government Colt like GM.

 

[wally]

Somebody will buy the name and trade mark.

Hasn't one of the Russian/Ukrainian ammo companies licensed it for a brand of steel cased ammo sorta like Silver Bear?

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/prod...ain-fmj-zinc-plated-steel-case-ammo?a=1498046

I also believe they've cut deals with Black Hills and perhaps others for "Colt branded" ammunition.

 

[short barrel]

I'd like to see Colt get the nod for the new sidearm the military is going to, or so they say. Maybe they could come out with something different to meet whatever specs Uncle Sam will require. I can't see our soldiers ever getting 1911's issued to them again, but such a move would surely boost Colt's name.

The best handguns I've ever owned were all Colts, pistol or revolver. What I'd hate to see is Colt conform to the horrid plastic guns. (I often carry a plastic gun though. When someone says "polymer pistol), those who hear him don't bring a Colt to their minds. Also, Colt to me means classic, and I know of no classic plastic guns. For that matter, Colt doesn't mean striker-fired to most people. I don't suppose we will ever have a "classic, plastic, striker-fired pistol." I'm not arguing for or against striker-fired, but just saying what Colt should remain, if they can stay in the game.

If I could have whatever I wanted in the way of guns, it would be a new Gold Cup and a new Colt SAA.

 

[HorseSoldier]

I'd like to see Colt get the nod for the new sidearm the military is going to, or so they say. Maybe they could come out with something different to meet whatever specs Uncle Sam will require. I can't see our soldiers ever getting 1911's issued to them again, but such a move would surely boost Colt's name.

I'd like to see the .mil purchase the best design. I'm not holding my breath for Colt to be able to source that. Otherwise, we're just talking about another government bail out for another corporation that can't survive on its own.

So, given this dicussion, if y'all had the funds to buy just ONE item (AR or 1911) from Colt, whch would you buy?

If it's a fire sale, I'd be happy to take one of the uppers for their version of the ACR off their hands (or in a crazy no NFA world, a SCAMP).

 

[Old Fuff]

I'd like to see Colt get the nod for the new sidearm the military is going to, or so they say. Maybe they could come out with something different to meet whatever specs Uncle Sam will require.

They have nothing to offer except a revolver introduced in 1873 and a pistol in 1911. :banghead:

They might come up with a prototype to test, but production tooling costs would kill any bid they might offer because they're competitors (Glock, S&W, Ruger, SIG, etc.) are already tooled and ready to go.

In 1982 when the Beretta was adopted Colt's entry didn't even last to the end of the trials.

This is a company that started going down hill just after World War Two, and never stopped being "too little, too late."

If they go under someone will pick up the pieces, but their long time fans may not like what they do with them. The chances of getting what used to be is absolutely zero.

 

[CraigC]

Fact is, right now Colt is building some very good guns and at fair prices. Their SAA's and 1911's are probably the best they've been since the golden age. Not so at times in their recent past but certainly true now. They're also building quite a few of them and civilian sales are good. The problem is the debt that Colt Defense brought to the table when they merged, $80million if I remember right.

 

[Aragon]

If they couldn't get their finances in good shape during one of the biggest surges in gun sales in history - it is indicative of serious problems with the company.

They're doomed.

If I had a choice between buying Colt Industry bonds or risking my money at the Blackjack table - I'd sit down at the Blackjack table and have at it.

True. Colt simply holds too much debt and it appears to be poorly managed. At some point it will fail for good, someone will buy the company's assets (without taking on its debts) and hopefully they'll be able to make an honest go of it.

That Colt name is still worth $$$ in the gun industry.

 

[Aragon]

They have nothing to offer except a revolver introduced in 1873 and a pistol in 1911. :banghead:

They might come up with a prototype to test, but production tooling costs would kill any bid they might offer because they're competitors (Glock, S&W, Ruger, SIG, etc.) are already tooled and ready to go.

In 1982 when the Beretta was adopted Colt's entry didn't even last to the end of the trials.

This is a company that started going down hill just after World War Two, and never stopped being "too little, too late."

If they go under someone will pick up the pieces, but their long time fans may not like what they do with them. The chances of getting what used to be is absolutely zero.

"Started?" It closed for two years after WWII.

Colt actually had a giant winner in the M16/AR15 in much later years. Unfortunately the company has been bought and sold without any real investment in PP&E, yet it carries tremendous debt.

 

[Aragon]

Colt's problems are not caused by unions or geography. Their problem is that they haven't had a successful new product in 50 years and everything they sell is a commodity manufactured by dozens of other companies for less money. And add to that the hundreds of millions of dollars in special dividends the owners paid to themselves and stuck the debt on Colt's balance sheet.

Colt's problems are manifold:

The feast/famine cycle of the arms business.

Hideously poor management.

Little to no investment in PP&E.

Over-reliance on military products.

Greedy union (UAW.) Longest labor strike in US history.

Speculators who have bought-and-sold the company several times adding debt along the way.

S&W has a similar, but not nearly as extreme history. Someone asked why S&W sold for so little back around FY2000? They need to look at the debt assumed by the buyer at the time in addition to the case.

Colt died in the late 1980's. The State of CT actually fought to keep it alive and in CT and in the antiquated Coltsville plant. Amazing how things have changed.