Colt MK VI 70 Series Dented Cases

[red rick]

What do you think is causing these dents in the mouth of my brass ? Does the extractor need tuning , or is it my reloads ? This is a pistol that I bought about 10 years ago and this is the first time shooting it with my reloads . It’s not denting all of the case . It is denting about 1/3 of them . Some of the cases are also ejecting to the left side . I worked up loads using Bullseye and Xtreme 200gr. FN bullets , COL 1.19 , from 4.8gr. to 5.4gr. . The accuracy wasn’t the best either . My best group was 3 1/2” at 20 yards using 5.3gr. . The pistol didn’t have any malfunctions , other than a few cases going to the left and the dented brass at the mouth . I can see that it looks like the slide is maybe closing to soon and scratching the mouth of the case where the dent is

 

[JTQ]

Chances are good it is because you don't have a lowered and flared ejection port.

Browning and Colt didn't care about dented cases, they just wanted the cases ejected out, they didn't care what they looked like when they came out, just that they came out.

Later, reloaders were bummed out by the dented cases so they started opening up the ejection port to keep the cases from getting dented and make their reloading easier.

 

[Walkalong]

Extended ejector may help as well.

 

[243winxb]

I have read plated bullets use lead data? Speer lead Maximum being 4.6 grs bullseye. Lyman has 4.8 grs Max. 200 gr lswc.

Not sure what model Colt you have? Gold cup or government model? Vintage 1970s? Different recoil spring were used, i think? Gov std 16 lbs?

Ejecting to the left side- thats a new one.

1970s Colt GC .

 

[red rick]

I have always read for plated bullets upper end lead loads to mid range FMJ loads . Xtreme recommends keeping velocity below 1200 . I am sure that I am doing that with those .45 acp 200gr loads . I was getting better groups the high I went .

 

[GRIZ22]

Chances are good it is because you don't have a lowered and flared ejection port.

Browning and Colt didn't care about dented cases, they just wanted the cases ejected out, they didn't care what they looked like when they came out, just that they came out.

Later, reloaders were bummed out by the dented cases so they started opening up the ejection port to keep the cases from getting dented and make their reloading easier.

Correct answer.

 

[red rick]

So this is normal with this model 1911 ?

 

[nettlle]

It's not normal. I have three 1911's and they don't do this.

 

[red rick]

This is the first one that I’ve had that does this also .

 

[nettlle]

I would start with the extractor. It's easier to work with than the ejector. You can try tuning (bending) the extractor. If it were me I would buy a Wilson Bullet Proof extractor. These have been plug and play (no guarantee) for me. After the new Wilson comes I would play around tuning the old extractor. Done this method in the past and has worked for me.

 

[Rock185]

FWIW, I owned and reloaded for several of the original Series 70 Government models. The cases hit the top edge of the ejection port on the way out; quite common on my original 70 series Governments. Sizing the cases for reloading most often ironed out the dent. My early 80 Series Colt had the original/not lowered ejection pot and did the same thing. Now days we are used to lowered ejection ports that alleviate the dented case issue.

 

[JTQ]

It's not normal. I have three 1911's and they don't do this.

All three of your 1911's have GI type ejection ports and they don't ding brass?

 

[nettlle]

All three of your 1911's have GI type ejection ports and they don't ding brass?

The OP needs the advice. Not me.

 

[243winxb]

At 7:16 is when the case mouth gets bent.

 

[JTQ]

The OP needs the advice. Not me.

My belief is the issue is the OP's has a GI ejection port and that's why he gets dinged cases. Brass getting dinged during ejection is a common issue with GI ejection ports.

With your comment...

It's not normal. I have three 1911's and they don't do this.

you seem to be indicating you have 1911's with GI ejection ports and dinged brass is not a problem for you. I'm just trying to clarify if you have 1911's without lowered or flared ejection ports and you don't have an issue with dinged brass with your GI style guns. If this is the case, perhaps you could identify what, if anything you did to your 1911's to keep this issue from happening.

If you didn't make any modifications to your 1911's with GI ejection ports, that would also be helpful information.

 

[243winxb]

the OP's has a GI ejection port and that's why he gets dinged cases.

I agree. Hard to see in OP photo, but looks like a "Classic" model?

The original 1911A1's would damage the brass so much that pliers were needed to fix the brass, so it could be reloaded. The GI issue 230 gr ammo did it. Had 3 of them in the 70s. Colt & Ithaca. 50 rounds of GI ammo was $3, back then. Gun used $45.

Target loads were more forgiving. My first Bullseye pistol was a Remington Rand 1911A1. Had adjustable sights installed , new bushing, tightened & lighter recoil spring. No bent case mouths.

 

[red rick]

It sounds like it is normal for this pistol . I will field strip it and see how well the extractor holds an empty case . Yes I had to get out the needle nose pliers and push the dent out .

 

[243winxb]

see how well the extractor holds an empty case

Hot loads require less hold by the extractor. The higher cycling rate of the slide gives less time for the case head to slide up the slide face & under the extractor.

There has to be no delay when the rim goes under the extractor.

The slow motion video above, shows the round being picked up by the slide.

Edit/add- Always load rounds from the magazine. This helps save the extractor adjustment by not having to snap over the rim.

 

[Skylerbone]

It sounds like it is normal for this pistol . I will field strip it and see how well the extractor holds an empty case . Yes I had to get out the needle nose pliers and push the dent out . View attachment 1202417View attachment 1202418

Yes, it is normal for a standard ejection port to ding brass. As mentioned above, the port is lowered, a flare added (scallop removed), and an extended ejector installed to get the casing moving toward the port sooner.

None of this work is particularly difficult if you’re patient, the removal and re-insertion of the ejector pin being the tricky part. Below is a lowered, unflared example which gives a more consistent ejection pattern, I simply wanted to keep the aesthetic look more original.

 

[CapnMac]

Often, it's down to how the extractor is "clocked" (it's rotation within its bore in the slide), and the height of the ejection port in the slide.

The old school answer was abut a 3mm chop on the bottom edge of the port, and a sizable scallop at its rear edge.

You can get better results with just getting 2mm milled off the bottom edge of the port, and ensuring proper "clocking" of the ejector (this wants scribing witness marks at the rear of the slide & ejector).

But, sometimes all that's wanted is different ammo and a pound different recoil spring (maybe that's a pound more, or its a pound less--your mileage may vary). Factory 230gr FMJ and 18# springs do, typically, seem "immune" to this.
Sometimes.
Perhaps.
YMMV

 

[Howland937]

Sometimes.

There's a pile of "Pistol Ball, Caliber .45 M1911" and "Caliber .45 Ball M1911" boxes (200 or so roughly) in a local antique shop. WWII/Korean War era I believe. Every single box is full of empty brass, every single piece of brass is dinged just like the OP shows.

 

[red rick]

I was talking to a friend of mine today and he went shooting Saturday . He has a Colt 1991 series 80 1911 that looks more like the original 1911 . This was his first time shooting it . He said that he only shot about 21 rounds of Blazer Brass through it and he didn’t notice any dents in his cases . He doesn’t reload so I don’t know if he looked at all of the cases though .

 

[Howland937]

Not a Colt guy, but I was thinking the 1991 has the lowered ejection port...

 

[Skylerbone]

Not a Colt guy, but I was thinking the 1991 has the lowered ejection port...

Correct.

Here’s that same Series 70 Reissue with the lowered port/extended ejector spitting brass, then the collected empty casings. Every blue moon I’d get a casing to the forehead if I relaxed too much on technique, now they fly over my shoulder. I shoot mostly 200gr cast FP or 230gr ball with a 12 lb spring and flat bottom FPS with the edge just broken.

 

[red rick]

Not a Colt guy, but I was thinking the 1991 has the lowered ejection port...

He sent me a picture of it and the ejection port does look lower than mine .