Colt Model 1908 .380ACP For CCW ?

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Gun Master

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I know the .38SPL / .380ACP accepted lower limit for self defense.
Usually, I pocket carry a S&W Model 638 .38 SPL. Sometimes with a Kel-Tec P32 as backup.

I've been considering carrying a Colt 1908 as my primary carry, or as backup for the 638. My Colt 1908 carries well in a thumb break belt holster, in the right hip pocket. The main difficulty is safe and easy operating of the thumb safety. I don't believe in relying on the grip safety alone. I have one extra magazine.

What advise and info do you think would be helpful regarding my decision?
I'm mainly interested in safety, reliability, speed, accuracy, and anything I may have overlooked.

Thanks for your input.:)
 
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Releasing the thumb break holster then releasing the safety sounds slow. Maybe retire the old girl and carry a dao semi auto to match the manual of arms with the s&w 638. Are those 1908 colts safe to carry with one in the chamber?
 
Little thumb safeties, especially on little guns, can be a little difficult to disengage when the user is under stress. Some little thumb safeties of course are easier to operate than others. "Consider manipulating the safety one handed" and if you will be willing to bet you will not be spending the rest of your life attempting to disengage a thumb safety.
 
I would carry a 1908 if I owned one (always wanted one). As long as you understand it's limitations and lack of a firing pin safety, take appropriate measures while handling the weapon, I don't see the problem.
 
I carry my 1903's...they are not drop safe with one in the chamber. Fantastic ergonomics and reliability for me. I have one at AP&W Cogan getting slicked up with their "Legacy Carry" package whcih includes a street tune for the action and hard chrome but mine is in .32.

I'll have 4 of them soon (one is in the mail yet) and they'll all find their way into carry rotation at times. I practice with them and they are as fast and accurate for me as any of the other guns I run. Maybe a little more so than some of them.

VooDoo
 
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Thumb Saftey

The thumb safety of the 1908 is smaller and has a different arch, than the 1911, which is much easier to operate (but much heavier to carry).

Voo, you have a good point about the drop safety being antiquated, compared to modern pistols.
 
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While I think it's awesome to consider a "vintage" pistol for carry, keep in mind that all the little parts and springs and it's manual of arms are "vintage" too. They may have been the cat's meow back in the day, but this is a tool that you are staking your life on, so if you really want to carry it please have it thoroughly gone through by a gunsmith (old brittle springs and what not).
 
I never understood the whole drop safe FPB idea for inertia to fire the gun it has to hit the ground muzzle first. Folks that's the good direction for an errant shot.

Besides most drops end up firing when somebody trys to catch it and pulls the trigger think Plaxico Burris
 
I was concerned about springs and such on mine as well and I'll second the recommendation of having a gun looked at by a gun smith *but* the number of guys locally (dependent on where you live obviously) competent to really evaluate the Colt Model M's is pretty small. I inherited my first gun and treated it with kid gloves and considered it old and fragile until the local smith (who builds 1911 pistols and loves the 1903/1908 pistols) checked it out and told me to "shoot it!"

These guns are not fragile and I have handled and shot dozens of them now and virtually all of them are pushing 100 years old and were all original. Obviously stuff can break *but* I have found the originals I'm shooting to be robust, strong shooters, accurate, and reliable with a variety of ammunition. Reliability if you polish the feed ramp is 100%.

In 4000+ rounds I have had 3 failures to feed - all with the same aftermarket magazine and in 2 different guns that did not have the feed ramp polished and was shooting flat nosed lead bullets. I have never had a failure with original mags and polished ramps. I always replace the recoil spring as it was bent in virtually every pistol I disassembled *but* all other springs are original and I have never had any failures while using the bent/original recoil springs.

On new acquisitions I check to make sure the safeties are functional and the guns will not fire out of battery nor slam fire. Then I shoot the dickens out of them...even the 100 year olds are not fragile in any way and even shooting hot ammunition I have yet to find any peening or lose a spring or cause a malfunction. These guns are shooters.

At least one person has been killed when a dropped Model M fired...A friend and I used two beat up 1903's and a primed but uncharged case to attempt to get a discharge when dropped to decide just how dangerous or likely it is. Inertial discharge is indeed a possibility but it takes a lot of force and luck to do it. Still, the guys who carried these "back in the day" as pocket guns generally all carried them without one in the pipe. The chances of a discharge if dropped are very small but it'll only happen once and I'm responsible for where that bullet goes whether I pulled the trigger or not.

We all evaluate our own risks and how much we can tolerate - I take care to see that I do not make risk decisions for bystanders or others.

VooDoo
 
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I am a long time fan of Colt's Pocket Model in both .32 and .380; and see little practical difference between the two cartridges although the .32 was reputed to be slightly more reliable. As for a carry weapon today consider the following:

Those made before about 1922 (Serial No. 422,000 <32> or 66,000 <380>) did not have a half-cock notch or ledge on the hammer face. Thus in the unlikely but possible case that the hammer fell while the chamber was loaded and the pistol in battery the pistol could, and likely would, fire.

About the same time the firing pin was modified to an inertial style similar to that used in the 1911 Government Model .45 automatic. This made them slightly more drop-safe provided the firing pin spring was up to specification.

While this handgun never earned a reputation for accidental discharges, I advise that those without the above features be carried with the chamber empty.

Original magazines should be carefully inspected because they sometime crack at the top/rear where the lips are formed. Beware of aftermarket replacements and test them well before using any in a defensive weapon.

Given the usual age of most of these pistols it's a good idea to replace the recoil, magazine and firing pin springs with new ones.

I once knew an officer in the British SAS who swore by what he called, "Colt's little Model M." If they were good enough for him I consider them to be more then good enough for me.
 
My great-grandfather carried one for decades as a backup when he was sheriffing and in his chaps pocket when he was cowboying and never thought twice about it. I consider that to be quite a recomendation. He took it away from a railroad hobo who pulled it on him one night. The thing that has kept me from carrying it is the little bitty sights and the problem my big stupid hands have with the thumb safety and the magazine release. I'm not saying that you (or I) will need to use the sights or change magazines under duress, but I the thought of my life depending on an accurate shot further than spitting distance or needing a quick reload definitely gave me pause.
 
You could do a lot worse in this day and age!

Loaded Guns are inherently dangerous.

They are supposed to be!

Long as you remember that, everything will be O.K..

rc
 
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My grandpa had an old and small Colt automatic and still had the original box. It said something about .38 caliber. I have wondered if it was a 1908. I was too young to know much about it back then. Grandma disposed of it in one of those police gather-up things. I am tempted to buy one like it and just pretend.
 
I have carried my 1903, here is what I decided:
-Not drop safe, nor as safe to carry as modern pistols with one in the chamber
-Heavy for its size compared to new guns
-Due to weight, it bounced against my thigh constantly when I pocket carried it
-Too much of a collector to take out daily for carry around

I love my 1903, but I just don't think it's worth carrying. You may or may not come to the same conclusion with your similar 1908
 
It was good enough for Patton, and Ike.......

That being said If I owned one I wouldn't beat it up by carrying everday, their value will only increase.
 
It's been around 106 years. Not a proven enough design? All of the ones I ever saw (several dozen) have been shot regularly since the beginning of the last century. If you can fine a .380 ammo that is reliable and you have an example of the gun that you don't mind carrying, why not?
Drop safe is pretty crazy thing to place all your stock in. How frequently were pistols dropped causing them to fire before such concerns?
The argument about the thumb safety being hard to manipulate when under stress is not one I agree with, FOR ME. I have operated small levers and switches and knobs and buttons under stress my whole adult life, with no problems, so this isn't as big a deal as most would have you think. It seems the pistol world wants slim, low-profile, easy-to-conceal pistols chambered in .500 Nitro with pin-ball paddle sized thumb safeties and masonry bricks for sights and car headlights mounted to them. Can't have it all.
If you are looking at .32 or .380 in a carry piece, you have already made a choice to carry a small caliber and (normally) low-ish capacity. Nothing wrong with this if it works for you.
If you like the way a Colt Pocket shoots FOR YOU, and can reliably hit what you are pointing it at, it's a great gun FOR YOU.
I love them, and have one (.32 cal), and would not hesitate to carry it if I didn't prefer other guns already in my collection.
 
I collect these pistols and consider the safety to be nearly impossible to manipulate with one hand and the original sights to be nearly useless in a crisis (although they're so small that they don't represent much risk of hanging up on anything). I would keep a vintage pistol like that as a collectable and purchase a small 9mm in place of it that pointed like it.
 
I can’t help but think that people carrying these pistols and similar models are not partly doing so for the same bad reasons mentioned here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=762136

As long as you understand it's limitations and lack of a firing pin safety, take appropriate measures while handling the weapon, I don't see the problem.

The problem is identified in your very words. Why would you want to have to “take appropriate measures” if a better design eliminated the need to do so.

I once knew an officer in the British SAS who swore by what he called, "Colt's little Model M." If they were good enough for him I consider them to be more then good enough for me.

Please put these comments in context. What years was this SAS soldier carrying the Model M? Was he carrying it with a round in the chamber? Was it carried in a manner that enabled a rapid draw when surprised or was it in a flap holster and carried as a doubtfully needed back-up weapon. Do you think anyone today serving in the Special Air Service would think a Model M is the best choice for any use? I don’t think so.

You could do a lot worse in this day and age!

Loaded Guns are inherently dangerous.

They are supposed to be!

Long as you remember that, everything will be O.K..

You can do much better in this day and age! Memory is not good enough which is why we have so many common safety features in more modern designs. Human memory is very fallible so it is good design practice to make the tools we use as safety infallible as possible.

It's a better pistol than most modern .380 designs.

I do not believe any objective analysis would support that statement.

It was good enough for Patton, and Ike.......

In conditions and for reasons that have very little relevance to the choice of a small pistol for self-defense in the 21st century.

Drop safe is pretty crazy thing to place all your stock in. How frequently were pistols dropped causing them to fire before such concerns?

Far to frequently to be tolerated today by the courts or most responsible gun owners. These pistols did not have firing pin safeties because of mechanical design limitations but because of a laxer attitude toward safety.

The argument about the thumb safety being hard to manipulate when under stress is not one I agree with, FOR ME.

How fortunate for you. Considering the thousands of dollars spent replacing the relatively enormous stock thumb-safeties on 1911s, BHPs, etc., with larger safeties over the last several decades it is fairly obvious that most shooters do not believe small thumb-safeties are easy to manipulate when under stress.

I collect these pistols and consider the safety to be nearly impossible to manipulate with one hand and the original sights to be nearly useless in a crisis (although they're so small that they don't represent much risk of hanging up on anything). I would keep a vintage pistol like that as a collectable and purchase a small 9mm in place of it that pointed like it.

Anyone reading this thread who has or has not already gotten emotionally invested in carrying a Model M or similar design should think long and hard about the reality check and wise suggestion that hso posted.
 
Nom de Forum That is very well said.

I had a 1903 and it is a really neat pistol, but if I'm pocket carrying a pistol there are way better choices today than the 1903.
 
My brother owns the 1903 Colt .32acp that was carried by my Grandfather 100 years ago and later by my Dad in France after D-Day. He prefers carrying his LCP .380.

I have my wife's grandpa's Remington Model 51 in .380 that he carried in the '20s & '30s. It is a comfortable slick shooter, but I wouldn't tote it around in Condition 1. That's a job for my LCP or Kahr CW45.
 
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