Colt Open Top Clones/Copies: What mods do you do/have done

[tscmmhk]

This is great info for the amateur black powder revolver gunsmith. Is all this information just "tribal" knowledge or is there a book / manual somewhere that summarizes all the stuff you guys are talking about. I am aware of most of the problems seen on the Italian repros but I don't always know the best way fix them. Thanks again for the info. I'll be installing a hammer stop on my 1860 Army today.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Good deal! You'll be impressed with the way it feels. And, if you do the bolt block thing, you'll be that much more impressed !! The stop (to me) makes the copies feel more Colt like than any other modification.


45 Dragoon

 

[DoubleDeuce 1]

Dragoon,

Can you post a photo of the bolt block out of the frame to show the tab you mentioned?

 

[45 Dragoon]

Yep, here ya go.

 

[36forme]

This is great reading and learning experience for me. I only own open top Pietta's which I plan to do some mods on.
I'm curious what you guys mean about tuning the springs. Do you replace them or thin the flat springs down a bit as we did in the day?
I really appreciate the time you guys take to post your mods. I will reciprocate.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Increasing or decreasing the orig. shape of the spring (usually). Doesn't take much to make a big dif. !! Greatly increases the life of the spring as well as the life of the parts that it affects. Handsprings always have more tension than needed and thus are usually the first to break (some if not most of this has to do with not having a stop). You need to induce space (if its not there already. depends on manuf.)between the spring and the backside of the hand.There shouldn't be any contact of the two during operation (except where it's attached of course).

Cap & ball revs. need most of the mainspring tension because of blow back through the nipple (cone). Cartridge revs. don't need near as much tension and it can be reduced by reducing the width of the spring from just above the screw hole all the way up. Go slow, and keep heat to a min.(quenching as you go), test often. Don't leave scratches and don't "hour glass"it.


45 Dragoon

 

[DoubleDeuce 1]

Dragoon,

Thanks for that extra photo. Brillant and simple!

 

[36forme]

I'm converting my pistols to gated conversions and will make my own ejectors.
36 cal. is my favorite, have a couple of 44's which will be converted also. Planning on reloading my own and using Trail Boss.
Thanks for the heads up on the springs.
I'm retired so once I get the shop set up it will be time to play. In the mean time I am trying to learn all I can.

 

[36forme]

Forgot to mention the 36's will get the barrels relined, so I don't have to mes with heeled bullets. I will also cut my own loading ports. Will be a while, I will post pictures when I do. Will have to learn to post pic's also lol.

 

[IROCZ]

Thanks 45 Dragoon for this thread. I'm going to tune up a Hawes .44 Navy that could use some improvement. Thanks again, I'll be back with questions I'm sure!

 

[craiso]

Here are pics of the stop and the location of. You could drill all the way through and be able to adjust it but, you shouldn't ever need to adjust it unless you get a new hammer. I'd rather not have a hole through my trigger guard.Install with blue thread locker.

45 Dragoon

What does this do for you besides a positive stop for the hammer. I like to use trigger stops in a similar fashion. Is it basically the same?

 

[45 Dragoon]

Craiso, The hammer stop keeps the hand from being the stop. Likewise, stopping the action stops the hand from applying pressure to the cylinder which wont be adding the pressure to the bolt. That will keep from battering the hand and the ratchet and the bolt head and the locking notches. In less words, it adds years of service to your revolver.

I don't know about a trigger stop, I've never felt the need for one in a single action revolver. It might save some trig spring pressure but I tune my springs individually and haven't had any probs.

45 Dragoon

 

[45 Dragoon]

Correction:

This post started with the idea that Colt S.A.A.s have a built in hand stop. I am not sure if this feature made it to production or was pushed aside early at some point. The stop feature was in the original design and a description of how the timing of the revolvers was set up around this feature by the assemblers. I would think , because of this, it must have existed in production at some point.

In the 1950's, when the "fast draw craze" was ignited, (thank you Hollywood and T.V. !!) the need to have single actions tuned and "set up" for this activity was a byproduct. The hammer stop was one feature that was used to stop the force of the action being cycled. Now, step back in time and you can see that the design of the Colt Peacemaker or Mod. of 1873 was ahead of it's time. The action of the "hand stop" would have had the same effect as a hammer stop . . . already built in !!!!! . . . . . . from the FACTORY !!!!!!
BACK TO THE FUTURE !!!!!!

I just wanted to set the record straight.

45 Dragoon

 

[tscmmhk]

Hey 45 Dragoon,

Completed the hammer stop mod on my 1860 Colt and you're right it does make a difference. Thanks again....I have another question about what you have done as far as modifications with reaming the the cylinder chambers. I have slugged the barrels / cylinders of all my cap & ball revolvers and have come up with the conclusion that the all the Italian (Pietta & Uberti) clones I own have under sized cylinder chambers. Some of the cylinder diameters are a good .007" smaller than the bore. I think this has to affect accuracy. So what have you done anything to deal with this?

Thanks

 

[45 Dragoon]

tscmmhk

Glad the stop worked well for you. I am a firm believer that it should be done to ALL S.A.s (even Colts) if for no other reason than to protect the parts (It does make them feel so solid).

As far as the chambers go, I don't have that problem since I shoot with Kirst conversions (all my S.A.s are dedicated cartridge guns). The chambers are the correct .452" to match the bore.
The Italian manufacturers prob. do this to help with any pressure related problems (not to mention liability reasons). If I shot c&b, I would prob open up the chambers to bore size ( if not .001-.002 over) like many shooters do.

45 Dragoon

 

[savit260]

This Pietta's had a few mods.

Action Job, defarbed barrel, Skinner front sight, R&D cartridge cylinder, lowered hammer. Work done by Hoof Hearted on the forum here.

REALLY need to find some decent grips for this.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Nice lookin groups !!! Nice lookin gun !!!!!

Hoof does really good work !!!



45 Dragoon

 

[tembotusk]

Savit260, Can you take a close up picture of the front sight and barrel?

I'm getting ready to install a taller sight on a round barrel and debating doing a dovetail or making a taller slot sight to replace the original.



Thanks!

 

[savit260]

Had a tough time focusing, but I hope this works for ya.



EDIT: No idea why this isn't coming through resized with the orientation corrected ???? weird.

 

[tembotusk]

Savit260, thanks for the picture. It works for me!

(Regarding the focus, the camera might be too close to the subject, or the auto foucus has a mind of its own!!)

 

[45 Dragoon]

Savit,
What kind of cylinder is that ?

 

[jaxenro]

This is great with the pictures now I understand what your doing to my 1862 Navy. Really cool!

I was reading about another mod in the blackpowder revolver hunters group today where they modify the arbor to take full power triple-7 loads sounded interesting

 

[tembotusk]

I was reading about another mod in the blackpowder revolver hunters group today where they modify the arbor to take full power triple-7 loads sounded interesting

Can you provide a bit more info or a link?

 

[jaxenro]

http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/internationalblackpowderhandgunhunters/conversations/messages/725

We have replaced all soft metal retainer pins with hardened spring steel roll pins cut individually to custom fit the pin slot which provide constant pressure on the arbor slot and will not bend under recoil. After the pins are fitted they were cold blued to provide protection against corrosion. The arbor is also turned insuring that all threading is good and if not the arbor is replaced if not repairable ( in the prototypes they did not require a new arbor). We in our prototypes have also heat treated the arbor to make it stronger and checked for tolerance to insure the cylinder to barrel gap is as tight as possible affording the highest velocities with each charge. Afterward all is assembbled with permanant commercial grade loctight which requires temperature of over 500 degrees farenheight to losen up therefore providing a hard bond surface which would be very difficult to loosen up.

 

[savit260]

Savit,
What kind of cylinder is that ?

The top pic with the target is the factory Cap & Ball cylinder. The bottom one is an Howell's 45 Colt cartridge conversion cylinder.