Colt Police Positive 32-20

[garandsrus]

I like the 32-20 and its little siblings, the 25-20 and 218 Bee. All three are great in a lever action. I have a 12” Contender barrel in 32-20 also. P

New ammo prices are crazy in these calibers. I reload them on a Dillon 550 with no problems. I do make sure everything gets started smoothly in the dies. It is easy to nick the case mouth.

 

[Walkalong]

I've seen so many bulged barrels on 32-20 handguns that it is now the first thing I look for. I've heard several explanations, but the most common one is that early 32-20 rifle ammunition tended to stick either bullets or jackets in the bore of handguns and the next round would then cause a ring.

I read about that happening in a G&A magazine a very long time ago, so as I hunted one at gun shows I kept an eye out for it, and saw one that had a bulge in the barrel. Long time ago now. The one I bought I sold later, but have a S&W 1905 .32-20 now.

 

[jski]

Howdy

You heard wrong. Nothing difficult about loading 32-20. Like 44-40 and 38-40, there are no carbide dies for it, so lubing your brass is a must. No more difficult to load than 44-40, or 38-40, both of which can be a little bit fussy if one is not careful.

You are correct however, the Police Positive revolvers chambered for 38 Special and 32-20 had longer cylinders than the standard Police Positive revolvers chambered for 38 S&W. A slightly longer frame to accommodate the longer cylinder. The ones chambered for those cartridges were called Police Positive Specials, because the cylinder was long enough for the 38 Special cartridge.

This 32-20 Police Positive Special left the factory in 1926. I paid $650 for it a few years ago, which I thought was a pretty good price.

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I have three firearms chambered for 32-20. A Winchester Model 1892 that left the factory in 1911, a Smith and Wesson 32-20 Hand Ejector that left the factory in 1916, and the previously mentioned Police Positive Special.

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I have never run into anybody shooting a revolver or a rifle chambered for 32-20 at a Cowboy match, and I used to attend quite a few matches. The 32-20 cartridge is available loaded, even loaded for 'cowboy' ammo, but CAS did not have much to do with the cartridge still being commercially available.




???What bulge???

Just checked: Redding, RCBS, Lyman, and Lee all make dies sets for the 32-20. RCBS even offers their “Cowboy” die set for the 32-20, plus their standard dies. As for commercial ammo, there seems to be quite a few choices for 32-20 Winchester.

And you’ve never seen a gun chambered for it in a cowboy match? Incredible!

So who’s using it? And why does Starline manufacture 32-20 brass? Someone’s buying it.

 

[jski]

I've seen so many bulged barrels on 32-20 handguns that it is now the first thing I look for. I've heard several explanations, but the most common one is that early 32-20 rifle ammunition tended to stick either bullets or jackets in the bore of handguns and the next round would then cause a ring.

Colt or S&W?

 

[.38 Special]

Colt or S&W?

Mostly Colts, with a few S&Ws. I have no idea if it happened more often in one make or another. It's just that I've come across many more Colts in .32-20 than S&Ws, for whatever reason.

 

[jski]

Which cartridge for the Colt Police Positive did cops prefer most? Was 32-20 Winchester a common choice for cops?

 

[Jim Watson]

No. My Dad carried a sawn off Police Positive Special .32-20 but he was a bus driver, not a policeman.

As far as CAS, there were a few .32-20s in my early days. The class act was to start with the Browning branded Japanese copy of Winchester Model 53 and have a full length magazine installed because by then the standard course of fire was 10 rounds from the rifle.

Very early in my career, when stages were shorter, there was a guy with a Marlin Model 27 who could really shuck them out. But when 10 round rifle strings became standard, he was out of luck because the Marlin's 6 round slip tube magazine was not feasible to extend.

 

[GBExpat]

The thing that I dislike about my two .32-20 Police Positive Specials (1912 & 1924) is that they decided to tuck the grip forward a bit.

Perhaps it feels more comfortable when used in smaller hands. When it was first designed and produced the average American male was noticeably smaller, so ...

 

[Walkalong]

The thing that I dislike about my two .32-20 Police Positive Specials (1912 & 1924) is that they decided to tuck the grip forward a bit.

Perhaps it feels more comfortable when used in smaller hands. When it was first designed and produced the average American male was noticeably smaller, so ...

Me too, I had a cute little Police Positive in .38 S&W, but it beat up my knuckles, the Official Police is much better suited to my hand.

Sold or traded the Police Positive, don't remember which. Years later I was able to pick up an Official Police in .38 S&W of GB very reasonable.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Me too, I had a cute little Police Positive in .38 S&W, but it beat up my knuckles, the Official Police is much better suited to my hand.

Sold or traded the Police Positive, don't remember which. Years later I was able to pick up an Official Police in .38 S&W of GB very reasonable.

——
Wow! Learn something new every day. I didn’t know the Official Police was ever offered in.38S&W - .38NP for Colts. That revolver must not have any perceived recoil. Nice find!

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Mostly Colts, with a few S&Ws. I have no idea if it happened more often in one make or another. It's just that I've come across many more Colts in .32-20 than S&Ws, for whatever reason.

I had a rung S&W 1905 round butt. It shot fine with .314” lead but keyholed with anything smaller. I sold it to the same gun store I bought it from. Some one snatched it the day it hit the shelf and he’s evidently real happy with it. I guess if you only load for one, the odd size doesn’t matter.

 

[Walkalong]

I didn’t know the Official Police was ever offered in.38S&W

Well, technically, it's a .38-200.

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Just checked: Redding, RCBS, Lyman, and Lee all make dies sets for the 32-20. RCBS even offers their “Cowboy” die set for the 32-20, plus their standard dies. As for commercial ammo, there seems to be quite a few choices for 32-20 Winchester.

And you’ve never seen a gun chambered for it in a cowboy match? Incredible!

So who’s using it? And why does Starline manufacture 32-20 brass? Someone’s buying it.

Why do you keep beating this dead horse?

I keep telling you that very few CAS shooters shoot 32-20 in their pistols or rifles. I have been shooting CAS for 20 years and would have seen a lot more shooters shooting the cartridge than I have if it was the major reason loaded ammo, brass, and bullets are available now. I cannot recall seeing anybody shoot 32-20 in a CAS match in all that time. The great majority of CAS shooters shoot 38 Special or 45 Colt. Followed by some of the less common cartridges such as 44-40 or 38-40. And some are shooting a smattering of other cartridges.

The majority of 32-20 shooters are just like you. They get ahold of a revolver or rifle chambered for 32-20, and find some ammo for it on the shelf, and then because factory ammo is hard to find decide to start reloading the cartridge. Back before the ammo shortage started I would every once in a while see some 32-20 ammo on the shelf in the local Cabelas and would usually buy a couple of boxes. At that time there was tons of 38 Special ammo on the shelves, but Cabelas never had more than a few boxes of 32-20 in stock. Yes I asked. I bought a set of dies from RCBS to load 32-20, and a bunch of brass from Starline. Starline only sells brass in quantities of 500 or 1000, so I bought 500, and most of it is still in the box. And let me tell you I had the dickens of a time finding any bullets for 32-20. Finally found a box of five hundred 100 grain round nose flat point bullets, but I had to go to the largest gun room in New England to find them.

Which cartridge for the Colt Police Positive did cops prefer most? Was 32-20 Winchester a common choice for cops?

The most common chambering for the Colt Police Positive Special was 38 Special. In this photo my 32-20 Police Positive Special is in the center, perhaps you can make out the chambering on the barrel. On the far left is a little 22 Long Rifle Police Positive target model. The other three revolvers in the photo are all 38 Special Police Positive Specials.






Colt developed the Positive Lock in 1905. It was a mechanism with a hammer block to prevent the revolver from firing unless the hammer had been pulled all the way back, either single action or double action. Colt made Police Positives in several different sizes. In this photo, the large revolver is a Colt Army Special, which eventually went under the name of Official Police. Directly below it is a Police Positive Special chambered for 38 Special. Below that are two small 32 caliber positive lock revolvers, the larger of the two is a Pocket Positive marked 32 Police Cartridge which is the same as 32 S&W Long. The smallest revolver in the photo is chambered for 32 Colt, which is a short 32 cartridge loaded with a heeled bullet. Nobody is producing 32 Colt ammo anymore that I am aware of.






The next two photos show the hammer block inside a Colt Detective Special. The arrow points to the hammer block in both photos. In the first photo the hammer block is preventing the hammer from moving all the way forward. In the second photo the hammer has been pulled back to full cock and the hammer block has slid down in its groove so the hammer can fall all the way when the trigger is pulled. By the way, the Colt Detective Special is built on the same size frame as a Police Positive Special.








Regarding Police use of 32 caliber revolvers, I have no data to back this up, but I suspect there were far more police revolvers being carried that were chambered for 32 S&W Long than 32-20. In 1896, while he was police commissioner of New York City, Theodore Roosevelt selected the Colt New Police revolver as the first standard issued revolver for NYPD officers.

Smith and Wesson developed the I frame revolvers specifically for the 32 S&W Long cartridge. The first of them was the 32 Hand Ejector or Model of 1896. This one shipped in 1899. The cartridges shown with it are 32 S&W Long on the left and 32 Colt New Police on the right. Basically the same cartridge.






I frame Smiths were a bit smaller than a K frame Smith, so they were a bit more easily concealed. The revolver at the top of this next photo is a 38 Regulation Police, chambered for 38 S&W, not 38 Special. The 32 Regulation Police below it is chambered for 32 S&W Long. Notice the 38 is only a five shooter, the 32 is a six shooter. The I frame cylinder was not large enough for six 38 caliber cartridges.






Then there was the K frame K-32 Masterpiece, also chambered for 32 S&W Long. This one shipped in 1954. Larger than an I frame S&W and not as easily concealed, I suspect not a whole lot of these were carried by police officers. By this time many police officers were carrying K frame 38 Special revolvers.

 

[jski]

Why do you keep beating this dead horse?

I keep telling you that very few CAS shooters shoot 32-20 in their pistols or rifles. I have been shooting CAS for 20 years and would have seen a lot more shooters shooting the cartridge than I have if it was the major reason loaded ammo, brass, and bullets are available now. I cannot recall seeing anybody shoot 32-20 in a CAS match in all that time. The great majority of CAS shooters shoot 38 Special or 45 Colt. Followed by some of the less common cartridges such as 44-40 or 38-40. And some are shooting a smattering of other cartridges.

The majority of 32-20 shooters are just like you. They get ahold of a revolver or rifle chambered for 32-20, and find some ammo for it on the shelf, and then because factory ammo is hard to find decide to start reloading the cartridge. Back before the ammo shortage started I would every once in a while see some 32-20 ammo on the shelf in the local Cabelas and would usually buy a couple of boxes. At that time there was tons of 38 Special ammo on the shelves, but Cabelas never had more than a few boxes of 32-20 in stock. Yes I asked. I bought a set of dies from RCBS to load 32-20, and a bunch of brass from Starline. Starline only sells brass in quantities of 500 or 1000, so I bought 500, and most of it is still in the box. And let me tell you I had the dickens of a time finding any bullets for 32-20. Finally found a box of five hundred 100 grain round nose flat point bullets, but I had to go to the largest gun room in New England to find them.



The most common chambering for the Colt Police Positive Special was 38 Special. In this photo my 32-20 Police Positive Special is in the center, perhaps you can make out the chambering on the barrel. On the far left is a little 22 Long Rifle Police Positive target model. The other three revolvers in the photo are all 38 Special Police Positive Specials.

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Colt developed the Positive Lock in 1905. It was a mechanism with a hammer block to prevent the revolver from firing unless the hammer had been pulled all the way back, either single action or double action. Colt made Police Positives in several different sizes. In this photo, the large revolver is a Colt Army Special, which eventually went under the name of Official Police. Directly below it is a Police Positive Special chambered for 38 Special. Below that are two small 32 caliber positive lock revolvers, the larger of the two is a Pocket Positive marked 32 Police Cartridge which is the same as 32 S&W Long. The smallest revolver in the photo is chambered for 32 Colt, which is a short 32 cartridge loaded with a heeled bullet. Nobody is producing 32 Colt ammo anymore that I am aware of.

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The next two photos show the hammer block inside a Colt Detective Special. The arrow points to the hammer block in both photos. In the first photo the hammer block is preventing the hammer from moving all the way forward. In the second photo the hammer has been pulled back to full cock and the hammer block has slid down in its groove so the hammer can fall all the way when the trigger is pulled. By the way, the Colt Detective Special is built on the same size frame as a Police Positive Special.

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Regarding Police use of 32 caliber revolvers, I have no data to back this up, but I suspect there were far more police revolvers being carried that were chambered for 32 S&W Long than 32-20. In 1896, while he was police commissioner of New York City, Theodore Roosevelt selected the Colt New Police revolver as the first standard issued revolver for NYPD officers.

Smith and Wesson developed the I frame revolvers specifically for the 32 S&W Long cartridge. The first of them was the 32 Hand Ejector or Model of 1896. This one shipped in 1899. The cartridges shown with it are 32 S&W Long on the left and 32 Colt New Police on the right. Basically the same cartridge.

View attachment 966611




I frame Smiths were a bit smaller than a K frame Smith, so they were a bit more easily concealed. The revolver at the top of this next photo is a 38 Regulation Police, chambered for 38 S&W, not 38 Special. The 32 Regulation Police below it is chambered for 32 S&W Long. Notice the 38 is only a five shooter, the 32 is a six shooter. The I frame cylinder was not large enough for six 38 caliber cartridges.

View attachment 966612




Then there was the K frame K-32 Masterpiece, also chambered for 32 S&W Long. This one shipped in 1954. Larger than an I frame S&W and not as easily concealed, I suspect not a whole lot of these were carried by police officers. By this time many police officers were carrying K frame 38 Special revolvers.

View attachment 966613

I’m not claiming CAS meets are filled with 32-20 leverguns and wheelguns. I only know what I’ve read. But the fact that there are so many commercial manufacturers of 32-20 ammo and some many manufacturers of 32-20 reloading dies tells me someone’s shooting these cartridges.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Why do you keep beating this dead horse?

I keep telling you that very few CAS shooters shoot 32-20 in their pistols or rifles. I have been shooting CAS for 20 years and would have seen a lot more shooters shooting the cartridge than I have if it was the major reason loaded ammo, brass, and bullets are available now. I cannot recall seeing anybody shoot 32-20 in a CAS match in all that time. The great majority of CAS shooters shoot 38 Special or 45 Colt. Followed by some of the less common cartridges such as 44-40 or 38-40. And some are shooting a smattering of other cartridges.

The majority of 32-20 shooters are just like you. They get ahold of a revolver or rifle chambered for 32-20, and find some ammo for it on the shelf, and then because factory ammo is hard to find decide to start reloading the cartridge. Back before the ammo shortage started I would every once in a while see some 32-20 ammo on the shelf in the local Cabelas and would usually buy a couple of boxes. At that time there was tons of 38 Special ammo on the shelves, but Cabelas never had more than a few boxes of 32-20 in stock. Yes I asked. I bought a set of dies from RCBS to load 32-20, and a bunch of brass from Starline. Starline only sells brass in quantities of 500 or 1000, so I bought 500, and most of it is still in the box. And let me tell you I had the dickens of a time finding any bullets for 32-20. Finally found a box of five hundred 100 grain round nose flat point bullets, but I had to go to the largest gun room in New England to find them.



The most common chambering for the Colt Police Positive Special was 38 Special. In this photo my 32-20 Police Positive Special is in the center, perhaps you can make out the chambering on the barrel. On the far left is a little 22 Long Rifle Police Positive target model. The other three revolvers in the photo are all 38 Special Police Positive Specials.

View attachment 966607




Colt developed the Positive Lock in 1905. It was a mechanism with a hammer block to prevent the revolver from firing unless the hammer had been pulled all the way back, either single action or double action. Colt made Police Positives in several different sizes. In this photo, the large revolver is a Colt Army Special, which eventually went under the name of Official Police. Directly below it is a Police Positive Special chambered for 38 Special. Below that are two small 32 caliber positive lock revolvers, the larger of the two is a Pocket Positive marked 32 Police Cartridge which is the same as 32 S&W Long. The smallest revolver in the photo is chambered for 32 Colt, which is a short 32 cartridge loaded with a heeled bullet. Nobody is producing 32 Colt ammo anymore that I am aware of.

View attachment 966608




The next two photos show the hammer block inside a Colt Detective Special. The arrow points to the hammer block in both photos. In the first photo the hammer block is preventing the hammer from moving all the way forward. In the second photo the hammer has been pulled back to full cock and the hammer block has slid down in its groove so the hammer can fall all the way when the trigger is pulled. By the way, the Colt Detective Special is built on the same size frame as a Police Positive Special.

View attachment 966609

View attachment 966610




Regarding Police use of 32 caliber revolvers, I have no data to back this up, but I suspect there were far more police revolvers being carried that were chambered for 32 S&W Long than 32-20. In 1896, while he was police commissioner of New York City, Theodore Roosevelt selected the Colt New Police revolver as the first standard issued revolver for NYPD officers.

Smith and Wesson developed the I frame revolvers specifically for the 32 S&W Long cartridge. The first of them was the 32 Hand Ejector or Model of 1896. This one shipped in 1899. The cartridges shown with it are 32 S&W Long on the left and 32 Colt New Police on the right. Basically the same cartridge.

View attachment 966611




I frame Smiths were a bit smaller than a K frame Smith, so they were a bit more easily concealed. The revolver at the top of this next photo is a 38 Regulation Police, chambered for 38 S&W, not 38 Special. The 32 Regulation Police below it is chambered for 32 S&W Long. Notice the 38 is only a five shooter, the 32 is a six shooter. The I frame cylinder was not large enough for six 38 caliber cartridges.

View attachment 966612




Then there was the K frame K-32 Masterpiece, also chambered for 32 S&W Long. This one shipped in 1954. Larger than an I frame S&W and not as easily concealed, I suspect not a whole lot of these were carried by police officers. By this time many police officers were carrying K frame 38 Special revolvers.

View attachment 966613

An interesting and pertinent addition to the information you posted. Well into the mid-20’s most municipalities appointed Constables from among the trustees of the area. Men were selected in part for their Marksmanship and tempers. In other words, their ability to hit a target and their good judgement to avoid having to do so. Before TR chose to issue sidearms, all lawmen provided their own. Sales figures , tin-plate photos and contemporary writings explain how companies like H&R, I-J, F-W, along with the bigger exporters and military contractors-Colt and S&W- managed to sell revolvers: they were popular among big city police Constables. The .32 being inherently accurate and light recoiling was easy to use in demonstrating keen Marksmanship


It’s not a coincidence H&R was selling a Police model in the 1880’s - before Colts or Smith. The top break Police automatic.32 and.38 were good revolvers- in their day.
I think a lot of collectors and reenactors get caught up in the big names and forget Colt didn’t enter the double action civilian revolver market early-they were the late players.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Well, technically, it's a .38-200.

Lend Lease? Great find! The.380/200 in that heavy.41-frame must feel like a plinking load. I have one of the Royal Hong Kong Police.380/200’s Colt Police Positive Special revolvers and its a nice shooter. Does best with heavy loads. Post pics of the Official Police if you can.