Colt Pythons in Nam ?

[Paul7]

You were allowed personal firearms in VN. Handguns were not typically issued to the lower ranks so many brought them from home or had them sent to them along with proper ammo to feed them. I had a few vets working under me including a tunnel rat, and a South VN former officer. Like indicated in a prior post D. Benson the tunnel rat was a small guy but had no shortage of courage. He also used the 1911.

I knew a former Vietnam tunnel rat who said once in a tunnel he felt the floor move beneath him, it was a VC pushing up on a trapdoor. My friend threw a grenade down the opening and the concussion knocked his head against the ceiling. He talked really loud, it must have done a number on his hearing.

Another time he said he took a shot at a VC running about 75 yards away who exploded, turns out he had been carrying a land mine.

Another random Vietman story, my cousin told me of a spotter in Vietnam who saw a company of 1,500 NVA soldiers coming along a path along the coast. The spotter called in to some offshore US ships who began a 5" gun bombardment. He said in a half hour there was nothing but body parts left of the NVA.

 

[Double_J]

I read a story about a member of the Lakota tribe who was a real P.I.T.A. for the VCand NVA. He had his mother ship his bow and a mess load of arrows over, that he used to great effect in guerilla warfare. The enemy put a serious bounty on his head.

My brother worked with a Marine tunnel rat who after we got to know him told some interesting stories. He would get the thousand yard stare when he was reliving the moment, a look I have only seen a few times and can't begin to understand. One of the stories was coming into an area where 7-8 people were sleeping in the light of a candle stub...he said that moment scared him the most as there was NO ROOM to move if they woke up. He did not tell what happened after that point and we did not press. To meet the requirement of this thread he carried a flashlight, kabar, and a 1911. He said he saw a few revolvers around but they were attached to air crew personnel.

 

[Palladan44]

Wayyyyyyyyy back -- when I was a military dependent, stationed with my parents in Japan (and the Vietnam War was raging), I remember reading an article in Stars & Stripes about a Filipino-American (I think that was his ethnicity) G.I. who would don black pajamas and a coolie hat, grab an AK-47, and go on solo patrols outside of his unit perimeter. He only knew rudimentary Vietnamese words, like "hello," "good-bye," etc.

In one instance, he happened to literally walk in on a Viet Cong team which was camped out in a small clearing, having dinner. They looked up at him, saw a combatant like themselves, and went back to eating. They never finished their meals.

.

They called him the F-105 Thunderchief of the jungle....ask him his kill count, and he would have no friggin idea.

 

[Hal]

How often did the rules actually apply over there?

As you may or may not have picked up on it from the posts so far - prior to 1968 & Mai Lai massacre, the Tet offensive and the photograph by Adams showing a street execution of a suspected Viet Cong by a South Vietnamese general using a snub nose S&W - things were pretty loose and a lot of people just pretended not to see what someone carried.

After the @%% storm created by the events of 1968, everyone was super concerned about the image being shown in full living color on every TV in America every night.

My brother served from 1970 to 1971. He told me he had a gun of some kind he was bringing home for me as a present. They announced on a loudspeaker that everyone had 5 minutes to get rid of any contraband - no questions asked - after that, there would be major problems if anyone was caught. He pitched the gun - and when the MPs went through everyone's stuff, the guy next to him had an arsenal in his bag. The MPs couldn't have cared less. All they were looking for were drugs.
My brother, not having any idea of what a gun was - other than his .45 - had no idea what the gun itself was when I asked him.
He was an ROTC/OCS Capitain in artillery - & didn't care to know one end of a gun from the other.

 

[Anchorite]

As you may or may not have picked up on it from the posts so far - prior to 1968 & Mai Lai massacre, the Tet offensive and the photograph by Adams showing a street execution of a suspected Viet Cong by a South Vietnamese general using a snub nose S&W - things were pretty loose and a lot of people just pretended not to see what someone carried.

After the @%% storm created by the events of 1968, everyone was super concerned about the image being shown in full living color on every TV in America every night.

My brother served from 1970 to 1971. He told me he had a gun of some kind he was bringing home for me as a present. They announced on a loudspeaker that everyone had 5 minutes to get rid of any contraband - no questions asked - after that, there would be major problems if anyone was caught. He pitched the gun - and when the MPs went through everyone's stuff, the guy next to him had an arsenal in his bag. The MPs couldn't have cared less. All they were looking for were drugs.
My brother, not having any idea of what a gun was - other than his .45 - had no idea what the gun itself was when I asked him.
He was an ROTC/OCS Capitain in artillery - & didn't care to know one end of a gun from the other.

Most infamous photo of the M49.

 

[earplug]

In 1976 demand for a stainless .357 revolver pushed prices for a S&W 66 to $600.00 when a S&W 27 was $350.
Any Python in Vietnam would have rusted quicker then mine did at Fort Benning.

 

[Hal]

Most infamous photo of the M49.

Yep - along with the little naked girl running from the napalm & Hanoi Jane on the AA gun - - and Ann Margaret on stage.

 

[Gordon]

I brought a walther .380 PPK and two magazines and one box of Geco ball just in time for Tet 68 where I was staying in a Saigon hotel with no other issued fire arm. I was staying near Aussies who fed me for a week before I got a US meal card and reported to MACV headquaters and sent back to the Hotel unarmed except for the PPK. I had to pull the PPK on a hostile cyclo driver , but I speak fluent VN ! I finally arrived with orders to HQ and HQ company 101st Abn where I was not issued a weapon other than a 1911a1 with three loaded magazines . Finally deployed to a Recon Unit in Ashau Valley for a couple months was given an M14 and alot of mags , as I was NOT trained in the M16 , but was very familiar with the M14 and they had some nice ones with the ANPVS2 hanging around. I did take the M14 a few places , like Hamburger Hill much later. Mostly I flew around here and there in Ashau valley in the back of a Loach so I traded the PPK for another gun as I remember it was a Grease Gun with 5 magazine pouch to compliment my 1911a1. Ended up defending my self and others successfully with the 1911a1 !!
Second tour was different , took over a High Standard Derringer in .22 Mag and a box of shells. My dad was doing work on putting the first Flir on Mohawks and I was called to Bien Hoa to meet up with him and a general. I was flying in fixed wing aircraft then as a 98G e6 directing ardf shots on the NVA units I was trained to identify by their chatter ect. It was a high paying position drawing P3 pay + combat flight pay and in taking the second tour and signing on for 2 extra years I remember I got another stripe on the spot to e6 and airborne pay and $10,000 tax free (which I bought a house with ) and choice of next duty (plain clothes in Ca. !) . My dad had a like new Ithaca 37 LAPD rifle sighted 12 ga. and 4 boxes of military brass buck shot with import and export papers and the General had signed a MACHV Pass known as a "Get out of jail free" card ! Life was good after that ! I carried the 12ga. in alot of scary fire bases occasionally when I did courier duty and gave intell briefings in field headquarters, I fired it into the wire during one sapper deal . I traded the derringer with 48 rounds (I fired it twice) to a pilot for a Swedish K 9mm sub gun and a sheath of 5 mags of ball ammo ! It carried well onto the planes I was flying in and I got rid of the Swedish K to a crew Chief on my way back to States for $$$ as I was legally carrying and shipped legally back in my duffle bag the Ithaca 12 ga. ! Never saw a python. The pilots and spooks I hung with , and the Aussies who I spent time with and the ROK troops I took Tae Kwondo with in Phu Bai didn't have them . But they did have a wide array of stuff that a gun nut like me inspected when I could ! I saw alot ! When I returned home my duty issued weapon was a S&W M10 2" !

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

All sorts of stories, usually involving people in the rear with the gear, "spooks", aviation units, etc.
No such luxuries for us grunts, as I point out to people, you were wounded or medevaced, went on R&R-or a long field operation, your personal items had a funny way of disappearing.

 

[Meeks36]

My friends dad had a certain sawed off shotgun he carried in Nam. Trigger guard removed, about 12 in long. Said he used it to clear tunnels. So no doubt some unusual stuff was floating around.

 

[DR505]

During the Bosnia fracas I worked with an old Marine Warrant Officer, who was a VN vet. His first (of three) gunshot wound came from friendly fire when he was a PFC...he had been down in a bomb crater fighting some NVA and his M-16 malfunctioned or ran dry (can't remember which). He grabbed one of the NVA's AK-47s (they didn't care anymore) and ran up out of the crater. One of his own guys drilled him in the thigh because he saw a small guy (Gunner Valentine was about 5'6") running towards him with an AK. He never did mention a sidearm.

 

[Rodfac]

I spent two tours in Vietnam...the first in 1970, as an airborne Forward Air Controller flying an O-1E serving with 5th Spl Forces guys at An Loc, lll Corps, B-33, north of Saigon. My Air Force issue handgun was a M15 Smith, that I returned to the squadron armory soon after checking out in the Birddog. The camp I was assigned to had many unusual firearms...Swedish "K"s, M1 Carbines as well as some heavier stuff. They gave me a 1911a1, and a "tanker" cross-chest rig to tote it, but I soon got my predecessor's Browning Hi Power, 9mm. I kept this till I DEROS'd in late 1970. 9mm ammunition was easy to come by while I was there.

I saw no Pythons while there, nor during my 2nd tour. Revolvers, in general, were not carried by anyone I served with in the bush, as they lacked capacity in actual combat. That's the reason I left mine down in Bien Hoa at the squadron. But personal weapons, from the states weren't difficult to get into country...but getting them home after your tour was over was nearly impossible. The REMF MP's searched luggage for contraband extensively: guns, ammo, grenades, drugs etc. The Hi Power I carried was given to my successor...wish I'd gotten it home with me.

In camp, while flying and pretty much 24/7, I and the rest of the camp carried M-16's...mine was the Air Force issued CAR-15...very similar to the M-4 now issued. Mine was accurate, and I was supplied with Air Force ammunition though our normal supply chain. The Green Berets from our B camp, when going up to one of the A camps routinely raided my CONEX for our ammunition...and this was a cpl of years after the Army sorted out the M-16 jamming problems.

The picture below is from Feb 1970, while I still had the M-15 S&W. That's the O-1E (Army called them L-19's), and I'm loading 2.75" Willie Petes. White Phosphorus was our marking rocket for airstrikes/gunship work...I also carried HE and/or flechettes from time to time. The carbine was slung from the right door ejection handle with a bandolier of magazines hung from the butt. We strung grenades, usually smoke, but occasionally frag from 0.040" stainless safety wire strung across the back of the cockpit seat. Note the stencil on the door, just below the open cockpit window..my special forces nickname...also the flare pods outboard of the rocket tubes...very useful for dropping ammo, medic supplies and sometimes a case of beer to teams in the bush. I'd cruise along at 80 knots just over the bamboo thickets and drop it on their call.

Best regards, and sorry for the digression.... Rod

 

[Anchorite]

https://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2011/06/tunnel-rat-pistol-qsp-revolver-0/


This is what I was referring to in my earlier post .... M29s used by tunnel rats.

 

[Hal]

I'd love to find out more about the ammunition they mention.
I've used those primer-only plastic bullets in my .44.
They make a big dent in 1/2" drywall - but - I can't see them (by them I mean any primer-only rounds) being lethal unless it's a fluke.

 

[Palladan44]

OP update. Great stories ive really enjoyed these so far. Im going to revisit this topic with my uncle, dig deeper into the convo. and see if theres a possibility this "Python" was possibly another model (such as a S&W M15) Also, Im going to see if theres a recollection of who exactly these "Python guys" were and when and whereabouts this was.

 

[bikerdoc]

For me, a1911 issued.
Only saw a few revolvers, none were pythons. The Arvn had a thing for stainless revolvers.