Combat Shooting
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GoBrush
Member
Kenny boy can you be a little more specific this is a huge topic I think you will learn more if you narrow your question down and then maybe post another question.
The Marine Corps and the Army are probably the most prolific trainers out there, but there are civillian training acadamies available (Google will turn up a few).
A few lessons I know to be facts:
1) There's nothing about combat shooting that is "cool"
2) Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice
3) If you can see them, you are also a potential target
A few lessons I know to be facts:
1) There's nothing about combat shooting that is "cool"
2) Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice
3) If you can see them, you are also a potential target
kennyboy,
What is your experience level? We'd be able to help you better if we knew where to start from.
Jeff
What is your experience level? We'd be able to help you better if we knew where to start from.
Jeff
Devonai
Member
Here's how a soldier thinks:
1. Never bring only a pistol to a firefight if you have any choice in the matter.
2. Never bring only yourself to a firefight if you have any choice in the matter.
3. Be aware of cover or concealment options before contact occurs and know the difference between the two.
4. Never move under direct fire without cover, concealment, or cover fire. Choose your next firing position before you run, and don't run for more than 3-5 seconds. If you can't make it to the next position in time, high crawl the rest of the way.
5. Communicate with your buddies to coordinate your actions. Assault the enemy only if you outnumber him 3 to 1 or if escape is not an option. Otherwise, cover each other and break contact.
6. Fire on the enemy until he is no longer a threat or disappears from view.
Or in four words: Shoot, move, communicate, kill.
1. Never bring only a pistol to a firefight if you have any choice in the matter.
2. Never bring only yourself to a firefight if you have any choice in the matter.
3. Be aware of cover or concealment options before contact occurs and know the difference between the two.
4. Never move under direct fire without cover, concealment, or cover fire. Choose your next firing position before you run, and don't run for more than 3-5 seconds. If you can't make it to the next position in time, high crawl the rest of the way.
5. Communicate with your buddies to coordinate your actions. Assault the enemy only if you outnumber him 3 to 1 or if escape is not an option. Otherwise, cover each other and break contact.
6. Fire on the enemy until he is no longer a threat or disappears from view.
Or in four words: Shoot, move, communicate, kill.
Any shooters that do all the "cool stuff" know how to do one thing in exacting detail. That is hit what they are aiming at. If you cannot achieve that fundamental, why worry about what is beyond that?
So, want to be a combat shooter? Get to where you can handle your weapon proficiently; that is load, unload, clear malfunctions, clean, re-assemble, present from holster, ready or sling with proficiency. Don't worry about fast or cool, just do things as simply and efficiently as possible.
Shooting, your fierce enemy is a paper plate. With a pistol, practice at 7 yards until you can hit that paper plate EVERY TIME at any shooting speed, from the holster, from the ready, multiple shots, etc. At that point you are probably proficient enough to attend some IDPA or USPSA matches. These are GAMES, but you can learn gun handling in an artificial stress environment. You are also proficient enough to attend a school such as Thunder Ranch, Blackwater, etc. All of the above assumes you are capable of teaching yourself basic safety and trigger control.
So, instead of buying the next black pistol that Combat Magnum Tactical Handguns tells you to buy, stop buying the BS magazines, buy more ammo, buy some books and DVDs, buy a shooting course that fits your skill level yet offers a challenge.
So, want to be a combat shooter? Get to where you can handle your weapon proficiently; that is load, unload, clear malfunctions, clean, re-assemble, present from holster, ready or sling with proficiency. Don't worry about fast or cool, just do things as simply and efficiently as possible.
Shooting, your fierce enemy is a paper plate. With a pistol, practice at 7 yards until you can hit that paper plate EVERY TIME at any shooting speed, from the holster, from the ready, multiple shots, etc. At that point you are probably proficient enough to attend some IDPA or USPSA matches. These are GAMES, but you can learn gun handling in an artificial stress environment. You are also proficient enough to attend a school such as Thunder Ranch, Blackwater, etc. All of the above assumes you are capable of teaching yourself basic safety and trigger control.
So, instead of buying the next black pistol that Combat Magnum Tactical Handguns tells you to buy, stop buying the BS magazines, buy more ammo, buy some books and DVDs, buy a shooting course that fits your skill level yet offers a challenge.
Matthew Temkin
Member
How old are you and which part of the country do you call home?
Why not start with a basic NRA pistol course and then follow it up with some more gun/tactical training?
Why not start with a basic NRA pistol course and then follow it up with some more gun/tactical training?
Thain
Member
There are also a couple of organizations there are always looking for a "few good men" willing to learn how to shoot in combat. From your tone (and screen name) I'm guessing you are in your teens?
Call your local recruiting center and ask!
Call your local recruiting center and ask!
cz75bdneos22
Member
Thain said:
Second that advice.
I'm young and from the Northeast. I specifically want to know about pistol shooting. If I have two or three silhouette man targets, do I shoot them all once or as the common saying goes "two to the chest and one to the head" or what? Also, at what distance should I be able to proficiently hit a hostage target meaning the head of the hostage taker (not the hostage for those who like to misconstrue words)? How does one proficiently transition to primary (rifle or subgun) to pistol in the case of a dry weapon or weapon jam? What is the best stance when shooting pistol (straight on or shoulder)? Those are the little things I am interested in. I have very limited experience with tactical shooting although I am very familiar with firearms. Thanks for the replies so far.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
Recommended Reading
The Tactical Pistol by Gabe Suarez
As it answers many of your questions~!
The Tactical Pistol by Gabe Suarez
As it answers many of your questions~!
Rambosky
Member
Please seek guidence from qualified people. Start here www.idpa.com
Some of the clubs also have carbine or shotgun side matches or even hold 3 gun matches. They teach you safety and it's very controled. You are able to shoot at mulitple targets, reload, transission from one weapon to another, there are no shoot hostage targets, but you won't have anyone shooting back.
Or as others have said...........join the military and then you will have someone shooting back but then............. it's no longer "cool".
Some of the clubs also have carbine or shotgun side matches or even hold 3 gun matches. They teach you safety and it's very controled. You are able to shoot at mulitple targets, reload, transission from one weapon to another, there are no shoot hostage targets, but you won't have anyone shooting back.
Or as others have said...........join the military and then you will have someone shooting back but then............. it's no longer "cool".
GoBrush
Member
kennyboy:
It may seem that many of us are just a bunch of crusty old men picking on you. That is not the case at all. I have a couple thoughts for you for whatever it is worth.
I think of the art of defensive shooting much like a master in the martial arts thinks of his discipline. Your shooting experience should start out with the fundamentals with a natural progression into more aggressive combat shooting. The key word is discipline. The power you have in your hand which heaven forbid could be used to end a life must not be taken lightly. One should only consider such power after carefully evaluating the deepest part of your soul. There are many things about all of the shooting sports that are fun and bring much joy but you really need to learn to walk before you can run. Find a mentor that can tutor you and enjoy the sport and all that it has to offer.
Now that I have given my two cents worth ok maybe it wasn’t worth that much you might find direct answers to your question by doing a web search (International Defensive Pistol Association) IDPA for short and look at some of the courses of fire they have published on the web.
It may seem that many of us are just a bunch of crusty old men picking on you. That is not the case at all. I have a couple thoughts for you for whatever it is worth.
I think of the art of defensive shooting much like a master in the martial arts thinks of his discipline. Your shooting experience should start out with the fundamentals with a natural progression into more aggressive combat shooting. The key word is discipline. The power you have in your hand which heaven forbid could be used to end a life must not be taken lightly. One should only consider such power after carefully evaluating the deepest part of your soul. There are many things about all of the shooting sports that are fun and bring much joy but you really need to learn to walk before you can run. Find a mentor that can tutor you and enjoy the sport and all that it has to offer.
Now that I have given my two cents worth ok maybe it wasn’t worth that much you might find direct answers to your question by doing a web search (International Defensive Pistol Association) IDPA for short and look at some of the courses of fire they have published on the web.
http://w3.kill-9.com/rpg-man.mpg
Seems to me that the "big" hit is a skip.
Watch police shows and in particular "gunfight" tv clips or videos to see what really happens, then address your training to accomodate such.
Seems to me that the "big" hit is a skip.
Watch police shows and in particular "gunfight" tv clips or videos to see what really happens, then address your training to accomodate such.
There are no absolutes in gunfights.
kennyboy asked;
The answer is, it depends. How far are your opponents away? Are they all armed with firearms? Are you behind cover or in the open? What are you armed with? What's your individual skill level? I know that you didn't expect severl questions in response to your question, but there are several ways you could handle that problem. Which one you choose will depend on how the other questions are answered. You could shoot Roadhouse Rules. That means (just like biker said), that no one gets seconds until everyone has been served. You simply engage each target as fast and accurately as you can, then move on to the next one.
Or you could shoot a box drill. To shoot a box drill, you engage the first target with a hammer to COM of what you can see, then move to the next target and repeat. After you have serviced all the targets, shoot the last target you engaged in the brain box, then move on to the next with a brain box shot.
Or you could enage each target in turn with a failure drill.
Which is the best method? All of them or none of them, it just depends on the circumstances at the time of the engagement.
Who knows? When and if that time would come, you my young friend are the only person who can make that decison. You can train for all kinds of different scenarios, but chances are the situation you are presented with will not be exactly the same as any training scenario you have experienced.
Do you have a tactical sling (single point or three point), a standard carry strap configuration, or no sling at all? There are techniques to transistion with all of those options and they are all different. There are also different techniques for each type of sling. Which one is best? Again, who knows?
That is a very touchy subject. Do a search on Weaver vs. Isosolies here or on any other firearms forum. The shooting community is divided on the issue. The answer is, whatever works for you. Take a look at the point shooting threads while you're at it. Another issue that divides many in the community.
No one here is trying to blow you off. It's just that it's impossible to answer your questions. You can't learn to shoot or fight from a website or a book. It takes a lot of hard work even to become a novice.
You've been given some excellent advice about getting some instruction and some trigger time under your belt.
There are no experts in gunfighting. I'd stay clear of anyone who professed to be. I learn something everytime I go to the range. I learn something everytime I teach.
Jim Crews said this in his manual; Some of the Answer, Urban Shotgun:
There is no such thing as an advanced class in any weapons training program, there are just different ways to apply the basics.
Jeff
kennyboy asked;
The answer is, it depends. How far are your opponents away? Are they all armed with firearms? Are you behind cover or in the open? What are you armed with? What's your individual skill level? I know that you didn't expect severl questions in response to your question, but there are several ways you could handle that problem. Which one you choose will depend on how the other questions are answered. You could shoot Roadhouse Rules. That means (just like biker said), that no one gets seconds until everyone has been served. You simply engage each target as fast and accurately as you can, then move on to the next one.
Or you could shoot a box drill. To shoot a box drill, you engage the first target with a hammer to COM of what you can see, then move to the next target and repeat. After you have serviced all the targets, shoot the last target you engaged in the brain box, then move on to the next with a brain box shot.
Or you could enage each target in turn with a failure drill.
Which is the best method? All of them or none of them, it just depends on the circumstances at the time of the engagement.
Who knows? When and if that time would come, you my young friend are the only person who can make that decison. You can train for all kinds of different scenarios, but chances are the situation you are presented with will not be exactly the same as any training scenario you have experienced.
Do you have a tactical sling (single point or three point), a standard carry strap configuration, or no sling at all? There are techniques to transistion with all of those options and they are all different. There are also different techniques for each type of sling. Which one is best? Again, who knows?
That is a very touchy subject. Do a search on Weaver vs. Isosolies here or on any other firearms forum. The shooting community is divided on the issue. The answer is, whatever works for you. Take a look at the point shooting threads while you're at it. Another issue that divides many in the community.
No one here is trying to blow you off. It's just that it's impossible to answer your questions. You can't learn to shoot or fight from a website or a book. It takes a lot of hard work even to become a novice.
You've been given some excellent advice about getting some instruction and some trigger time under your belt.
There are no experts in gunfighting. I'd stay clear of anyone who professed to be. I learn something everytime I go to the range. I learn something everytime I teach.
Jim Crews said this in his manual; Some of the Answer, Urban Shotgun:
There is no such thing as an advanced class in any weapons training program, there are just different ways to apply the basics.
Jeff
http://www.uspsa.org/classifiers/cm99-11.pdf
There is a test for you, if you can do that in about 6 seconds you will be a pretty fair "combat shooter". That is, there is nothing magical about this little drill, just if you have the skill to consistently pull it off in 6 seconds with good hits, you probably have plenty of other skill. I am sitting at about 7.25 seconds right now using a Glock 17. A good shooter could take the same gun and do it in the 5's. World class with a pimped up gun is in the 4 second range.
But still in all it is seeing the sights(or as much as you need to see) and pulling the trigger at the correct time in that sequence of visual input. Nothing glamorous.
So, to help others help you, what are your shooting resources? Gun, places to shoot, time and budget? Loaction?
There is a test for you, if you can do that in about 6 seconds you will be a pretty fair "combat shooter". That is, there is nothing magical about this little drill, just if you have the skill to consistently pull it off in 6 seconds with good hits, you probably have plenty of other skill. I am sitting at about 7.25 seconds right now using a Glock 17. A good shooter could take the same gun and do it in the 5's. World class with a pimped up gun is in the 4 second range.
But still in all it is seeing the sights(or as much as you need to see) and pulling the trigger at the correct time in that sequence of visual input. Nothing glamorous.
So, to help others help you, what are your shooting resources? Gun, places to shoot, time and budget? Loaction?
Creeping Incrementalism
Member
AFhack said:
Because the desire to be tacti-cool is not at all a factor in why guys join SWAT teams or earn CQB type qualifications.
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