commercial 30-06 in a Garand

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I did a search, but didn't turn up any old threads so I figured I would ask...

Is it safe/advisable to shoot commercial 30-06 ammo in a Garand? Anyone have a documented "No **** there I was" story involving commercial softpoint ammo?

I figure this is worth asking with the supplies of surplus 30-06 getting into "rarer than bigfoot on the subway" territory.
 
The Garand was designed to be operated around a certain pressure, which is why if you reload, you only use powders with a certain burn rate.

Commercial ammo will usually be hotter, which can lead to a bent op rod. Some manufacturers load ammo around the pressure the Garand was designed for.

Also, the Garand was designed for a certain bullet weight 147-168, so using a heavier bullet can cause problems too. While you may not ruin your rifle firing a few rounds, why take the chance.

I know Federal has a 150gr FMJ round that people use without any problems.
 
Hardware,

The CMP has millions of rounds of surplus .30-06, and it's a hell of alot cheaper than any commercial you'll find. You don't want to be shooting commercial ammo in the Garand unless you know what powder is used. In most cases, the powder's too slow and over time will damage the op rod.

Don
 
Commercial 30-06 Ammunition is fine.

Just install an adjustable gas plug,

http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/855569

Basically, adjust it until your garand fails to cycle, tighten it a bit and you are good to go.

This comes up all the time, also check the forums at odcmp.com, if you have any Garand questions.

I would also recommend you check your springs as well, you can order a new set from http://www.gunsprings.com/ for a few dollars.
 
Commercial ammo - - -


American Eagle (Federal) 150 gr. FMJ. Literally thousands through my M1. No damage. None.



Other side of the spectrum:
Winchester hunting ammo. An older guy at my club had just gotten his (then) DCM M1 Garand and had no ammo for it. (The year - 1985.)
He wanted to shoot so badly. He bought 4 boxes of Winchester 165 gr. JHP and came to the High Power Match.

First shot downrange was LOUD.
Second was LOUD.
Third. . . . BOOM!!!! Stock shattered, op rod bent, bolt went flying across the concrete firing line. Shooter's hand stinging like crazy.
 
It is not the peak pressure that matters. It is the timing of the pressure.
Even the American Eagle has shown signs of high pressure in my M1. A bright ring about a 3/16th" from the case head.
From all that I have read the pressure curve is the most important thing to consider. I will only use M2 surplus or my reloads in my M1s.
P5
 
You're options for soft point or hunting ammo are.....

1) Buy the adjustable gas plug

2) Reload or befriend someone who does and get 20 rounds made up.

3) Hope like hell the rifle doesnt blow apart :eek:



All of the CMP stuff if FMJ so you wont want it for hunting.
 
"All the CMP stuff if FMJ so you wont want it for hunting"

A collet bullet puller, a seating die, a press, and a box of 150 grain soft point hunting bullets will fix that problem in no time flat.

As for the poster who informed us of the older gentleman exploding his Garand with 165 hollowpoint Winchester factory ammunition, I know of no such factory loading except in .40 S&W.
There is a 165 grain Ballistic Silvertip .30/06 and this may be the culprit since it is loaded warm and fast.

I have routinely fired .30/06 Winchester 150 grain Partition Gold and 150 power softpoint Winchester factory loads in my Garands and my Browning sporting BAR with no signs of any damage to the rifles.

Winchester also produces a 168 grain MATCH hollowpoint factory load that is considered safe to fire in an M1 rifle.
 
Unless a commerical ammunition manufacturer specifically advertises ammo they sell to be Garand safe by printing it on the box, or by telling you what powder and charge they're putting in the ammo, then it's advised to not shoot it without an adjustable gas plug.

I don't know of any ammo that is specifically sold as Garand safe. I've seen manufacturers like PMC and Olympic sell .30-06 ammo that is called "M2", indicating it is similar to M2 military ball, but I know for a fact that Olympic .30-06 uses a very slow burning powder that is not wise for use in a Garand.

Stick with Greek HXP or US Lake City (or even Korean M2 surplus). Or reload.

This topic has been discussed countless times before.
 
Remington 150 gr express

I've shot some of the budget Remington 150 gr without serious ill effects. What it did do on several rounds was to jam and literally bend the cartridge and I took that to be a combination of the soft point and perhaps a little too much velocity on the bolt. Now, I pretty have the adjustable gas plug. If you "gotta shoot it some right now" ... then get the mildest 150 gr ammo you can find. But then get the adjustable or purchase from the CMP.
 
Bent op rod..been there and done that.

:( I restored an original garand with original parts and numbers,it took me 3 years.Its not the quality of the gun or its materials,The m1 garand is one of the best made rifles to serve.Its the gas system and the tolerances.
 
What I do...

For commercial ammo, I've shot UMC (yellow box before they changed packaging) 150gr FMJ. No problem, but that's been a while.

For just general shooting of the Garand, I use the surplus Lake City 1969 I got from CMP. They have more. I intend to get more and recommend you do the same.

For hunting ammo, I have handloads in Hornady's 165gr SP to run IIRC 2600fps. I have Hornaday 150gr SP component bullets which should closely mimic M2 ball when loaded to 2900fps. Don't quote me, but that requires about 48-50grs of IMR4895 according to both sections (.30-06 and M1 Garand, considering both sections together) of Hornday's 5th Edition.
 
Its not the quality of the gun or its materials,The m1 garand is one of the best made rifles to serve.Its the gas system and the tolerances.
Click to expand...

Right. That bent op rod is the biggest problem I hear of. If we know the pressure range, we can actually do a lot as far as .308" spitzer type bullet selection, but we can't do much as far as powder... well, we can, but it gets iffy.

Tell you what got me... I read of this one idiot who shot everything in his Garand just to see how much it would take and he did proudly succeed in blowing it up. IIRC, he blew the receiver heel off from too fast a powder ramming the bolt back too hard.
 
Don't forget the primers also. The Garand doesn't have a spring loaded firing pin.

Let me quote myself from an old thread here. You'd have similar considerations for any 06 loads.

Here are the replies I got from some of the ammo manufacturers a couple weeks ago when I wrote to ask about using their 150 grain FMJ loads in a Garand.

Federal - We hear of many people that use it but it is not Mil Spec ammo with the correct primers or propellant.

Ammo is available from the CMP which we produced under contract to them.

Rem-UMC - The powders we use in the 30-06 are slower and we don't recommend using our 30-06 products in a Garand.

Winchester - Yes you can shoot it in this firearm
Click to expand...
 
The reason I've heard for not shooting soft point is that during feeding the sharp edges can scrape some lead from the tip. This lead might work it's way into the chamber and interfere with feeding or extraction or...???
 
Ditto the adjustable gas plug. I put one on my converted Garand (7.62x51 NATO) just so I could use 168-173 gr. bullets as well as the standard 147 gr. without beating it to death in the process. I'd be wary of trying most commercial hunting loads in mine without it, not only because of the mediocre accuracy that a deformed SP generally gives you but also the potential problems that powders with burn rates outside of the design spec can cause. FWIW, I wouldn't use many, if any, 180-220 gr. loads or anything labeled "Light Magnum" even with one installed.
 
IIRC, he blew the receiver heel off from too fast a powder ramming the bolt back too hard.
Click to expand...

Correction: It would be from TOO SLOW a powder, which has a much higher "tail" on the pressure curve, where the bullet passes the gas port.

best regards,
Swampy

Garands forever
 
As for the poster who informed us of the older gentleman exploding his Garand with 165 hollowpoint Winchester factory ammunition, I know of no such factory loading except in .40 S&W.
There is a 165 grain Ballistic Silvertip .30/06 and this may be the culprit since it is loaded warm and fast.
Click to expand...


Oops. My typo. Yes, it was 165 gr. Silvertips, IF memory servies me.

This incident has been quite a few years ago. But yes, it was Winchester 165 gr. ammo.
 
Quote:
IIRC, he blew the receiver heel off from too fast a powder ramming the bolt back too hard.

Correction: It would be from TOO SLOW a powder, which has a much higher "tail" on the pressure curve, where the bullet passes the gas port.
Click to expand...

Yeah, that was a tangled thought that was supposed to mean the too slow powder made too high a port pressure that rammed the bolt back too fast.
 
I've been toying with the idea of getting a Garand, but this business about not being able to shoot proper .30'06 out of .30'06 rifles without breaking the rifle is outrageous. It's either a lot of fancy pants shooters paranoid about hurting their rifles, or a patently defective design. .30'06 means .30'06, if it doesn't then the rifle is mis-marked.

However, every source I turn to says something different. One will say the Garand is built like a tank and can shoot everything up to 190 grain loads, another that it will destruct with any hollow point hunting loads. So what is it?? Is this a tough, reliable rifle or a POS that will kaboom with factory ammo? With my Mosins I can pick up anything that says 54R on it, and even some stuff that really doesn't, and fire it off without fear. Everything form wooden bullets to 215 grain monsters. So why is the vaunted Garand such a prima dona?
 
I've been toying with the idea of getting a Garand, but this business about not being able to shoot proper .30'06 out of .30'06 rifles without breaking the rifle is outrageous. It's either a lot of fancy pants shooters paranoid about hurting their rifles, or a patently defective design. .30'06 means .30'06, if it doesn't then the rifle is mis-marked.

However, every source I turn to says something different. One will say the Garand is built like a tank and can shoot everything up to 190 grain loads, another that it will destruct with any hollow point hunting loads. So what is it?? Is this a tough, reliable rifle or a POS that will kaboom with factory ammo? With my Mosins I can pick up anything that says 54R on it, and even some stuff that really doesn't, and fire it off without fear. Everything form wooden bullets to 215 grain monsters. So why is the vaunted Garand such a prima dona?
Click to expand...

Comparing a bolt action to a first generation semi auto is apples and oranges. A bolt action has no gas system to worry about. The Garand was designed to shoot the standard issue US Military .30-06 ammo. It wasn't designed around commercial ammo because its a military rifle. It was never intended to be a commercial sporting arm. The Garand's action is plenty strong, stronger than many bolt actions in fact, but the operating rod is its Achilles heel. That long thin op-rod can be bent or broken if the pressure at the gas port near the end of the barrel is too high. It may not break or bend right away, but it will eventually.

Most modern .30-06 factory ammo uses powder with too slow a burn rate for the M1's gas system, which was designed around the military ammo of the 1930's using powders with a medium burn rate and bullets weighing between 147 and 173 grains. Even the sporting .30-06 loads of the 1930's most likely would have been safe, but today everyone is a velocity junkie, and the ammo companies have responded by loading their ammo with slow burning powders in order to squeeze out every last fps.
Its not a big deal though, just handload or buy an adjustable gas plug if it bothers you.
 
Most modern .30-06 factory ammo uses powder with too slow a burn rate for the M1's gas system,
Click to expand...

So I've heard from Garand forums, but nowhere else. Where does this information come from? Mind, I know about light magnums. But otherwise SAAMI has been pretty good about keeping commercial .30'06 to reasonable levels. I don't know of any major change in the power of .30'06 hunting ammo since the 30's. Indeed if anything it's not as potent as it was. the .30 cal. ball ammo of WWII was pretty weak, but surely they didn't limit the rifle to that low power range? Apart from the operating rod the thing is a tank.

But all this may be a moot point. If an adjusting gas valve is put in, can the rifle then safely shoot commercial and heavy loads? I doubt I will shoot a lot of hunting ammo out of the thing, but I can't abide a rifle that can only shoot FMJ that's only good for target shooting.
 
If I had to guess, I'd say the info comes from people who've wrecked their op-rods using loads with slow powder. I say, why risk it? Just use loads with powders and bullets in the proper range for the gas system or use an adjustable gas plug, geez, whats the big deal?
 
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