Commercial bullets, whats your tolerance from missed Lube?

[Peter M. Eick]

I normally buy lasercast bullets. Every bullet is nicely made and has lube 100% of the places it should be and no bullet is missing anything. But Lasercasts are hard and expensive.

So,

Without naming names I have been buying other bullets from other brands. What I have noticed is yes they are cheaper, sometimes as little as half the costs delivered. Wow that is nice. But I have also noticed that bullets are missing lube. It appears to have fallen out in the box or maybe the bullet lube stuck together and pulled the lube out of the groove and it fell in the box.

Some companies I am finding as many as one bullet in 15 with no lube. Initially i figured ok, that is the price you pay for cheaper bullets and tossed them aside. I then thought about it and figured I should try some experiments to see how many no lube bullets you can shoot before you seriously lead the gun, but that is another story.

So, you guys, what is your tolerance before you say, no more from that company?

1 bullet in 15 no lube
1 bullet in 5?
1 bullet in 50?
1 bullet in 500?

(Or am I just worrying about nothing really).

Finally anyone have a suggestion on a lubricator?

 

[blarby]

The amount of lube actually required for functioning is but a fraction of what is actually found on most bullets.

Lee makes a great sizer, so I hear.

If you have a few that are missing lube from their ring and its making you cranky....look in the box. Usually, its there, if you want to finger roll it back in.

Missing lube from the rings would concern me if it was more than 25%...that would indicated either serious mishandling, or a production error.

They would however, function just fine.

 

[ranger335v]

"figured I should try some experiments to see how many no lube bullets you can shoot before you seriously lead the gun,"

You're asking a question none of us can honestly answer. We don't know how hard your bullets are, what load/velocity you're shooting, the quality of your bore, nor the type lube that's used. Fact is, it's not necessary that all of every groove be filled anyway IF the lube is good (Alox based) and missing lube in an occasional round shouldn't be a big issue. That said, shooting a string of unlubed bullets may not be a good idea, no matter the rest of it.

 

[bluetopper]

Shoot a non lubed bullet sporadically amongst all the lubed ones and you'll never know the difference. Residual lube will be left from other bullets in the barrel to take care of a non lubed one once in a while.

I love my inexpensive commercial cast bullets in my high dollar handguns.

 

[LiveLife]

I have tried several commercial "hard cast" bullets over the years and found some of the bullets delivered with the lube in the grooves chipped, partially filled or missing/knocked out altogether. Depending on the vendor, less than desired lube condition often ran 1 in 5 to 1 in 20. Yes, I do realized that some US Postal Service workers are quite brutal with these heavy bullet boxes but consider 1/5-1/20 frequency not acceptable for me. Due to these reasons, I won't order from certain vendors anymore.

In recent years, I have ordered 20,000+ rounds from Missouri Bullet Company and have found very few bullets with missing/knocked out lube (so far for me, about 10 bullets). I rarely get chipped/partially filled bullets as I noticed the blue lube used by MBC is softer/stickier than harder/crayon-like lube that some other vendors used.

Peter, these are how MBC bullets (even softer 12 BHN bullets) look when they arrive in California after a long trip from Missouri.

Picture of bullets pulled from boxes with light coating of lube on the surface (more than likely from transport in long rough truck ride)

Picture of bullets with surface wiped showing condition of lube

 

[Peter M. Eick]

I recognized your MBC boxes. I have some of those also.

You may be on to something with the fact that it has to do with how sticky the lube and how badly it is beaten up in shipping.

Lasercast's come with a wad of paper in each box and this keeps the load from shifting. They also put two boxes of bullets (1000 bullets normally) in a cardboard sleeve for shipping and they get here in nice shape.

For example the MBC bullets got here in a USPS box that was ripped open and beat up. MBC puts the bullets in a box and the box in a bag, then the bag in the USPS box if I remember right. Everything made it with no real issues so each system works.

So what I take it is that most folks don't worry about it and just load up the missing lube bullets as is and run with them. I kind of figured this was the best approach since I know I have plenty of lube on the end of the barrel, I must be running a surplus in general.

 

[gspn]

I buy a lot of stuff from MBC and I'd guess that maybe 1 out of 150 or 200 has partially missing lube. Perhaps 1 out of 500 is missing it totally.

 

[David Wile]

Hey Peter,

My thoughts on commercial cast bullets is to use them only when I can not cast my own bullets. Like you, I frequently find commercially cast bullets with chuncks of lube missing as you described. It seems like the lube they use is a lot different than the lube I use on my cast bullets. It seems like their lube is harder than mine, and mine seems to be more sticky - it never falls out of the grooves. Oh yeah, my cast bullets also have multiple lube grooves rather than the single lube groove so many cast pistol bullets have, and most of them are gas checked.

With the commercial bullets, if it was just a small piece of lube missing, I would be likely to load it and shoot it. On the other hand, if there is a lot of lube missing from a bunch of bullets, I would run them through my Lubrisizer to re-lube them. Since the idea is just to add lube rather than actually size the bullets, I would use a size die that is the same size or a 1,000th larger than the bullets I intended to lube. For instance, if I had commercially cast .38 caliber bullets which were already sized .359 and missing lube, I would put a .360 sizer die in the Lubrisizer and lube them again.

I have always used Lyman and RCBS lube sticks in my Lubrisizer, and their lube does not fall out of the grooves. I have also seen some recipes for making your own lube using beeswax toilet rings as the basic indgredient. I would not hesitate to make a batch with beeswax, but I bought out a supply of Lyman and RCBS lube sticks back in the early 1990s, and I may still have enough to last me the rest of my life.

You ask about my tolerance for problems with commercial bullets. If I don't make the bullet, then my tolerance is very lenient. If I have a choice of making my own bullet, I wouldn't think of using commercial. Obviously I like my bullets a lot more than commercial ones.

When you asked about a lubricator, I did not know if you were asking about re-lubing commercial bullets as I described above or if you were asking about what to use to lube bullets in general. As I have mentioned, I use a Lyman 450 Lubrisizer. I have had it for over forty years, but I have had the screw pull out of the bushing twice in that time, and each time I had to pay for the parts and shipping from Lyman. I figure Lyman makes a good product, but their warranty is crap. RCBS makes the same type of lubrisizer that uses the same sizer dies interchangeably with the Lyman Lubrisizer, and best of all, the RCBS Lube-A-Matic luber/sizer is covered under the RCBS warranty which is much more customer friendly than Lyman in my experience. Star also makes a very good luber/sizer, but it is even more expensive than Lyman and RCBS.

Lee makes some different products associated with lubing and sizing bullets. I admit I have never used them, but Lee's methods do not appeal to me. One of their methods is to "tumble lube" bullets without sizing them at all. I have never seen anything about lubing and sizing bullets with Lee products that would be better than the more conventional machines made by Lyman, RCBS, and Star.

I have purchased and used one Lee aluminum mould for casting bullets. They are a lot less expensive than my traditional steel moulds from Lyman and RCBS, but I did not like using the Lee aluminum mould. I cannot objectively prove that my steel moulds are better than the Lee aluminum mould I tried for a while, but I did not like the Lee mould. One criticism of the Lee mould that I think is objective is the fact the Lee mould did not allow for the use of a gas check. My Lee mould was .45 caliber for use in my 45-70, and I did not like using bullets without a gas check. I ordered two double cavity moulds from RCBS and sold the Lee mould to someone who thought it was great. The RCBS steel moulds are a lot more expensive than Lee moulds, but I would rather get my steel moulds which were designed for gas check bullets.

Others are perfectly happy with Lee moulds, so not everyone would agree with me about my preference for steel moulds and gas checks. When it comes to sizing and lubing cast bullets, however, I don't see how anyone can argue that "tumble lubing" cast bullets makes a better cast bullet than sizing and lubing in a Lubrisizer type machine.

Best wishes,
Dave Wile

 

[Super.45]

Rough handling from USPS can make a mess out of anything. If you get boxes that are ripped or damaged and the product inside is messed up as a result then you should file a claim with USPS for the damage.
The current vendors I use Penn Bullets and Mastercast arrive in very good condition.
Penn really packs their boxes well with double wall boxes and paper and filament tape so the bullets arrive in very good condition.

 

[Catshooter]

Peter,

Probably a round every now and then won't make much difference, probably. However, I've your targets and you can shoot. So maybe not. Try it!

I have always been more concerned with a lube groove that's only partially full. The rotational velocity of most bullets runs from high to extremly so. And some missing lube would unbalence the bullet, or so I think.

I doubt 90% of all shooters can't shoot well enough to tell if either condition is hurting their scores, but I would think you would.

I cast my own, with lube that really wants to stay there. I've recovered bullets and their lube loss is usually quite even.

For most shooters the RCBS is the best lubrisizer. For high-volume shooters most use a Star.


Cat

 

[Peter M. Eick]

Thanks for all of the advice.

My casting desires have to stay in check until the child moves out according to the wife. Ok, I can honor that request. In the mean time I can get an RCBS luber/sizer and fix some of the bad bullets I get.

I will have to start running some experiments and figure out if it matters. My bet is a bit of lube missing is not detectable, but a bunch of bullets in a row with no lube is an issue.

In the end it is money. I shoot lead instead of jacketed so I can afford to shoot more. I shoot cheap lead over expensive lead (lasercast) so I can shoot more. Maybe I am going just a bit too cheap?

 

[Catshooter]

Peter,

Only you could deceide if 'you're going too cheap' as it's your money.

One tip I will give you is that if you intend to cast in the future, set about collecting your wheel weights now. Lead alloy wheel weights are disapearing from the US as we speak. Accordingly the cost of casting will be going up.

The bulk of my WW were free to me so the cost of a cartridge is primer/powder costs. About three cents for a 45 ACP with components taken from my stocks.

Go to the smaller ma and pa tire stores/service stations. Take empty five gallon buckets with you to exchange for their containers. Sometimes a half rack of beer can help!

Good luck.


Cat