commies are pro gun?

[cajun47]

"Okay, I have to ask... Why does Americans call everyone that speaks of "gun control" communists!? Didn't communists have the opposite aproach... you know, lots of guns! ...for everyone!"

thats from another site. i have a habit of calling anti gunners in america "commies". am i wrong? they support private gun ownership or just want guns for their military personel? every common person in russia or china has an ak47?

 

[quatin]

every common person in russia or china has an ak47?

Not in China. China has very strict gun control policies. I just know they do allow firearms for hunting.

*Then again China isn't really communist. Russia is also not communists, they're some type of odd democracy.

 

[Zundfolge]

Most honest-to-God Communist countries don't allow civilians to possess firearms (I say "most" because I don't know for a fact its "all" but I suspect its "all").


Now, that said, here in the US I've known several hard core Marxist/Communists who are all for gun rights (how else are they supposed to arm their workers revolution?).

 

[Justin]

Okay, I have to ask... Why does Americans call everyone that speaks of "gun control" communists!? Didn't communists have the opposite aproach... you know, lots of guns! ...for everyone!

Communism only allows for possession of guns so long as it is in service to the state.

 

[DirksterG30]

Now, that said, here in the US I've known several hard core Marxist/Communists who are all for gun rights (how else are they supposed to arm their workers revolution?).

That is, until the revolution is over. Then the leaders would disarm the populace.

 

[huntingnt]

Flaming hypocrites!!

Communists / Socialists are the worst hypocrites. During the revolution stages they make a hero out of the fighting man. As soon as they have control, they strip them of their arms so they are no longer a threat and dependant on the state for security.

 

[Fosbery]

Communists wants guns to facilitate a socialist revolution. Then they want to take them away from the people to stop a counter-revolution. Socialism is about control and you can't control people without coersion and you can't coerse people if they're armed.

There are very few modern communist revolutionaries however. Today, people who we might describe as 'liberal' or 'socialist' are wanting to control the people in the same way as the revolutionaries of the past did. They achieve this control through politics rather than revolution, but in the end they still rely on coersion and so need to disarm the people.

 

[Pilgrim]

"Okay, I have to ask... Why does Americans call everyone that speaks of "gun control" communists!? Didn't communists have the opposite aproach... you know, lots of guns! ...for everyone!"

The communist approach of "lots of guns!...for everyone!" holds true in countries they are trying to destabilize and forment revolution towards a communist state. However, once the communists take control, those guns are rounded up and only remain in the hands of trusted agents. The 'revolutions' in the African continent are examples of this policy.

The communists will loosen up their own gun control efforts if it supports uniting the country to fight an external foe, provided of course there is strict political control of the armed populace. Once the crisis has passed, the guns get collected again. Examples of this include the 'Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945, and North Vietnam's 'struggle' to liberate South Vietnam.

Pilgrim

 

[Keith Wheeler]

Communism only allows for possession of guns so long as it is in service to the state.

It was my understanding that there were shooting clubs in the Soviet Union, and that LH Oswald was a member of one.

And if you're going to twist those shooting clubs in to be "in service to the state" by saying "that was just to train soldiers/whatever", couldn't the same claim be made about our beloved 2A?

 

[Geronimo45]

Pro-gun until they take control by revolution, then they're pro-gun for the military only.

I don't see the current crop of antis as Communists, per se - closer to socialists - socialism being, in essence, communism for sissies.

 

[doubleg]

Hong Kong which is considered its own little country is VERY strictly Communist. The rest of china is sociolist. Hong Kong is you know the usual, keep the serfs in mud huts. While the upper class and politicians live in million dollar pent houses. Also I don't believe Chinese citizens are allowed to own a firearm of any kind. I know this from when the NRA made a big stink about their Olympic pistol team having to practice with airsoft guns. The rest of china has a very good economy, built with of course U.S. citizens money earned from the crap you buy at Wal-Mart. But now the sweat shops are moving to the Phillipines and North Korea since Chinese labor is begining to cost more.

 

[GEM]

i have a habit of calling anti gunners in america "commies".

George W. Bush said he would sign the AWB if it got to his desk. Thus, he is a communist.

So does that answer your question about your rhetorical strategy?

 

[quatin]

Hong Kong which is considered its own little country is VERY strictly Communist. The rest of china is sociolist. Hong Kong is you know the usual, keep the serfs in mud huts. While the upper class and politicians live in million dollar pent houses. Also I don't believe Chinese citizens are allowed to own a firearm of any kind. I know this from when the NRA made a big stink about their Olympic pistol team having to practice with airsoft guns. The rest of china has a very good economy, built with of course U.S. citizens money earned from the crap you buy at Wal-Mart. But now the sweat shops are moving to the Phillipines and North Korea since Chinese labor is begining to cost more.

Hong Kong was ruled by the British and only recently was returned to China (6 years ago?). I do see that it's sort of a cesspool though.

I can't find any information at all about China, Cuba, Laos, Vietnam & N.Korean gun laws so you guys making statements: where are you getting your information? The only thing I know about Chinese gun laws is from my dad who grew up there. He told me he and his brothers used to go hunting with shotguns. I also found out that China recently closed hunting season for the year....Bits and crumbs but it's all I know. Anyone have references?

 

[doubleg]

I saw it all on the travel channel.


I looked all over the internet and cannot find any site that lists the gun laws for china.

 

[Matt King]

Communists support anything, as long as it is in service to the state.

 

[benEzra]

Hong Kong which is considered its own little country is VERY strictly Communist. The rest of china is sociolist. Hong Kong is you know the usual, keep the serfs in mud huts. While the upper class and politicians live in million dollar pent houses. Also I don't believe Chinese citizens are allowed to own a firearm of any kind. I know this from when the NRA made a big stink about their Olympic pistol team having to practice with airsoft guns. The rest of china has a very good economy, built with of course U.S. citizens money earned from the crap you buy at Wal-Mart. But now the sweat shops are moving to the Phillipines and North Korea since Chinese labor is begining to cost more.

No mud huts in Hong Kong...just $400,000-for-900-sq-ft apartments. Hong Kong is a very, very developed city, and has a lot in common with Tokyo or Seoul.

Under British rule, Hong Kong had absolute gun prohibition. I had a roommate from Hong Kong one semester, very interested in guns but had absolutely no exposure to them other than in movies and such. My roommate and I taught him basic gun safety, took him to a local indoor range, and let him rent and shoot his dream gun, a Colt Python .357. I remember his giant grin after the first shot...

 

[cajun47]

"George W. Bush said he would sign the AWB if it got to his desk. Thus, he is a communist."

got a fox news link?

 

[lance22]

Cuba

Don't know about other countries but can speak for Cuba.

The revolution demanded the commoners to have weapons. After the revolution they let chaos reign for a while. Then they said "We need to know who the criminals are. Turn in your guns, and everyone who keeps their guns must be a criminal".

Then shebam ... no guns, then, no 'real' elections, no 'real' freedom of the press, no 'real' freedom to move ....

That's what Che Quevera calls "Giving power to the people" ... it's suprising how many kids in college think that Che gave more power to the people than did Jefferson.

 

[PercyShelley]

The end result of Marxist doctrine is supposed to be a happy, practically anarchistic existence with some sort of obscure economic system in which everyone works doing exactly what they want to, gets paid handsomely, and eats candyfloss and bubblegum all day. Unless Marx said something specific about weapons in this pipe dream of magical unicorn fairy economics, I can't see why private ownership of weapons would be a fundamental probem.

Of course, anyone who was awake during the twentieth century must have noticed that those who pronounce themselves "Marxists" were somewhat reluctant to follow the old man's instructions, besides the whole violent revolution thing. These communists have ever since implemented very totalitarian styles of government, which are broadly incompatible with weapons ownership by the masses.

 

[Keith Wheeler]

That's what Che Quevera calls "Giving power to the people" ... it's suprising how many kids in college think that Che gave more power to the people than did Jefferson.

Well, uh, Che Guevera wasn't the leader who implemented all that nasty post revolution stuff in Cuba. He got sent to various other places (until he was killed in one) by Castro to keep him from stirring up more problems in Cuba.

I'm not saying "he's a hero", but like all the other politics discussed here, it'd make more sense if you had your facts straight. Blaming the post-revolution situation in Cuba on a fellow who wasn't leading the nation doesn't really make your point. And by the time Cuba was in complete disarray, he was dead.

 

[QuestionEverything]

Lenin on guns:

The minimum programme of the Social-Democrats calls for the replacement of the standing army by a universal arming of the people. Most of the official Social-Democrats in Europe and most of our own Menshevik leaders, however, have “forgotten” or put aside the Party’s programme, substituting chauvinism (“defencism”) for internationalism, reformism for revolutionary tactics.

Yet now of all times, at the present revolutionary moment, it is most urgent and essential that there be a universal arming of the people. To assert that, while we have a revolutionary army, there is no need to arm the proletariat, or that there would “not be enough” arms to go round, is mere deception and trickery. The thing is to begin organising a universal militia straight away, so that everyone should learn the use of arms even if there is “not enough” to go round, for it is not at all necessary that the people have enough weapons to arm everybody. The people must learn, one and all, how to use arms, they must belong, one and all, to the militia which is to replace the police and the standing army.

The workers do not want an army standing apart from the people; what they want is that the workers and soldiers should merge into a single militia consisting of all the people.

The communist gameplan is first to have a violent revolution against the state, then create a "dictatorship of the proletariat" that redistributes all wealth. Marx said that after wealth redistribution was finished, the dictatorship would wither away and leave behind a utopian classless society where everyone supported each other. Never quite works out that way in real life, though. In a completely "flat" society with no form of authority, I assume you could have any weapon you wanted. The few communists I've met, a kooky bunch if there ever was one, are quite enthusiastic about gun ownership, bomb-making and anything else that will help them conduct the violent revolution Marx prescribed.

 

[doubleg]

You know what I meant .

Hong Kong has a problem with poverty with the NORMAL people.

 

[White Horseradish]

"Okay, I have to ask... Why does Americans call everyone that speaks of "gun control" communists!? Didn't communists have the opposite aproach... you know, lots of guns! ...for everyone!"

Because very few of the people that use the word "communist" actually know what it means. In US it has become a generic insult, sort of like "idiot" is no longer a medical term.

thats from another site. i have a habit of calling anti gunners in america "commies". am i wrong? they support private gun ownership or just want guns for their military personel? every common person in russia or china has an ak47?

You are wrong on multiple counts.

People oppose gun ownership for various reasons, some anti-gunners are communists, some are not.

Russia is not a communist state at this time. Whether the government there is truly democratic is open to debate, but it does not officially espouse the communist ideology. Not every person has an AK in Russia, but it is possible for anyone after jumping the proper hoops to buy a Saiga in 7.62x39, which is essentially an AK minus bayonet mount and full-auto fire control.

At various times firearm availability in Soviet Union has fluctuated from long guns sold over the counter at sporting goods stores on par with hockey sticks to near complete prohibition of rifles. Handguns have been a no-no since late 40s, unless issued by the state.

I cannot speak to China, as I know nothing about it.

 

[wooderson]

This thread... whooo, where to start?

The one key point to note here: 'gun control' is non-ideological for dictatorships. Be they fascist, be they Stalinist, be they instituted by the US of A or be they backed by China/the USSR (back in the day) - gun control is a means to an end for them all.

To the first poster - the reason you call them commies is because it's an all-purpose pejorative for some (moreso during the Cold War), whether or not it's factually or logically correct in any given context. Same reason I call people who try to run me off the road the four-letter c-word regardless of sex.

 

[ArfinGreebly]

Come Da Revolution . . .

(Leader) - Comrades! Come da revolution, you vill all haff strawberries!
(ALL) - Yaaaaay!
(Boris) - But, comrade leader, I do not like strawberries.
(Leader) - Come da revolution, you VILL like strawberries!

Apologies to my mother.

Totalitarians unite! You have nothing to lose but the freedoms of those who follow you!

Or something like that . . .