Commuters in MASS to be Subjected to Random Searches

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http://www1.whdh.com/news/articles/local/B44709/




BOSTON -- The public transportation system in Boston will institute next month a random stop-and-search of bags and packages procedure on subway and commuter trains, a move largely prompted by the March 11 train bombings that killed 191 people in Spain, officials said.

The new policy, which will include explosive-sniffing dogs and all 247 uniformed Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority police officers, is set to be in place for July's Democratic National Convention, MBTA Police Chief Joseph Carter told The Boston Globe.

"I have no trepidation about being first (in the country with such a transit-security policy)," Carter said Monday. "I don't want to be the first to do an interview about having a serious incident that may have some terrorist indications to it. I want to be in a position to prevent and detect and apprehend someone prior to them causing damage. We want to do this to encourage people to feel safe on the MBTA, to utilize public transportation."

Carter said MBTA has not announced the new policy formally because officials still are working out the details on how to balance security and privacy concerns.

Carter said the policy is being developed in coordination with the U.S. Transportation Security Administration and with several other transit agencies in the United States and abroad. He said it is not yet fully developed.

Last month, MBTA police announced the entire force has been receiving counterterrorism training that includes spotting suspicious behavior. MBTA police already can request to see the identification of passengers they perceive to be acting suspiciously.

Last month, the TSA unveiled a pilot program to screen the bags of all passengers at a single Maryland Rail Commuter station in suburban New Carrollton.

MBTA Deputy Police Chief John Martino, who is overseeing the development and implementation of the search policy, said police, sometimes accompanied by explosive-sniffing dogs, will randomly pick out riders for inspection throughout the transit system daily. He said the number of inspections would increase dramatically during the convention July 26-29.

Carol Rose, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts, said that while she understands the need for security, the MBTA plan is deeply flawed and may violate the U.S. Constitution's ban on unreasonable search and seizure.

"The Fourth Amendment doesn't stop at your wrist when you carry a briefcase; it includes your bag," Rose said. "It either has to be truly random, or it has to have a root in a reasonable basis of suspicion."

Pamela Pratt, 46, a hospital supervisor from Randolph, told a Globe reporter, "We all know who will be stopped -- black people like me or my brothers."

"It's a gray area," said Caleb Charland, 23, a photographer from the city's Dorchester neighborhood. "I don't want people searching my bags, but if it increases safety, I understand." (AP)
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Is this legal?

So what happens whenn they search some one legally carrying?
 
Hand guns are not banned as far as I know. Hi cap mags are though. I will look now....
 
???

To be honest, I don't know how I feel about this. It's against the Constitution, but not against common sense. Hmmm......Wow. Gut is to follow the Consitiution, but, what happens if you see a group of 10-15 people carrying large suitcases/ trunks/ bags? Then what? What if they are "acting suspicious" (whatever that means) I don't know...


BTW- Guns are not illegal in Boston (if you have Lic).
 
I understand that the theory is for overall safety, but it could be abused.
There was a quote in the article from an ACLU spokesperson saying that it would have to be completely random or done under specific suspicion so that would cover the groud of people with suitcase acting suspiciously I guess.

I was just wondering what they'd say about a legal firearm?
 
Pamela Pratt, 46, a hospital supervisor from Randolph, told a Globe reporter, "We all know who will be stopped -- black people like me or my brothers."
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Yeah, 'cause black people flew airplanes into buildings on 9/11/01.

:rolleyes:
 
Hand guns are not illegal in Boston. There are several points to remember, though. Boston will not give CCW permits to the common people. But they can not prohibit those of us from outside of the city from carrying as long as we are legal in our own town, no magazines over 10 rounds, no evil looking assault rifles.
 
First it's the bag or the briefcase, next it's the car at the toll booth, then it's the closets in your home.

Once you start......:(
 
Outrigger, how are the realestate prices near you?
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For whatever it's worth, I'm in NH (Concord area)- I can tell you that I just moved here from South Shore MA (my name give that away?)- I went from 900+ Square foot 25 year old house on .15 acres to a BRAND NEW house on 5 acres, 2,000+ square feet FOR LESS MONEY and LESS crime. How can you go wrong?
 
Hand guns are not illegal in Boston. There are several points to remember, though. Boston will not give CCW permits to the common people. But they can not prohibit those of us from outside of the city from carrying as long as we are legal in our own town, no magazines over 10 rounds, no evil looking assault rifles.
Click to expand...

I think it's a common misperception that Boston has a "no mags over 10 rounds" law on the books that affects handguns. They don't. I often suggest to people who may have to move to Boston area from out of state is to look at the MBTA's commuter rail maps, look at all the cities that the commuter rail serves, and find out which ones are easy to get Class A LTC for All Lawful Purposes.

If for some reason it does turn up that you have a gun, and you have a Class A LTC ALP, you should be fine. Though I can't seem to find out about the "rules" of MBTA anywhere on their website.
 
I could certainly see my self retiring to NH, VT or Southern Maine. Or even buying land on a lake or something if I found enough at the right price.
 
Lonnie Wilson:

I found nothing on the MBTA website about the restriction of firearms. I searched under Fire arms, guns, weapons, homocidal death devices, and turned up nothing. I have also never seen any signs or heard any annoucements regarding firearms ont MBTA property

L_G From the article: "BOSTON -- The public transportation system in Boston will institute next month a random stop-and-search of bags and packages procedure on subway and commuter trains, a move largely prompted by the March 11 train bombings that killed 191 people in Spain, officials said."
 
Baaaahhhhhhh, Baaaahhhhhhhhhhhh!:rolleyes:



This country's looking more and more like a B grade WW2 movie with the nazi bad-guys checking everyone's papers.:uhoh:




nero
 
So, not only are the boots on, they're being used!

Something about the line in the sand.............
 
Beyond the question of whether this and airline searches are constitutional, there is a big difference between this and airline searches. Both are clearly in violation of the 4th Amendment. But with airline searches, you can at least argue necessity--airliners are highly-mobile "flying bombs" that can be directed anywhere as "weapons of mass destruction." The same is not true for railroads--they only go where the tracks go. Yes, you can kill a few dozen people by blowing up a bomb in close quarters in a train, but you can do that in any crowded place--a ball game, Disneyland, a bus, a lecture hall, the Walmart checkout lines, etc., etc., etc. Any argument you can make for random searches on a train would be equally applicable to random searches anywhere.

I see this as a de facto total revocation of the 4th Amendment. :scrutiny: :uhoh: :mad:
 
"I don't want people searching my bags, but if it increases safety, I understand."
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Why do I find myself thinking about the quote that goes something like, "Those who are willing to give up a little bit of freedom to gain a little bit of safety, will have neither."?



(BTW, does anyone have the accurate quote, and who said it?)
 
I think they are just talking about bomb-sniffing dogs, and not stopping people for physical searches.[/i/

I don't think so:
MBTA Deputy Police Chief John Martino, who is overseeing the development and implementation of the search policy, said police, sometimes accompanied by explosive-sniffing dogs, will randomly pick out riders for inspection throughout the transit system daily.


what happens if you see a group of 10-15 people carrying large suitcases/ trunks/ bags? Then what? What if they are "acting suspicious"

That wouldn't be a random search

While there is a poetic justice in seeing the anti-gun blue state Bostonians subjected to the sort of harrassment gun owners take for granted, my rational side bemoans that even the ACLU now accepts random searches ("your papers, please"), provided they are "truly random."

What makes more sense is to concentrate limited police resources where they are likely to yield the most return. This means focusing on suspicious individuals and groups, and yes, it means profiling. Get over it.
 
... and yes, it means profiling...
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which is sometimes also known as "probable cause"...

"Your honor, we stopped the suspect because he was a bearded, middle-eastern Arab who appeared to be carrying a bomb..."
 
Mental image immediately comes to mind. Colonel Klink at the train station, wearing a long leather coat and a monocle, overseeing his team, asking "Your papers, vere are your papers, please.........??"
 
To be honest, I don't know how I feel about this. It's against the Constitution, but not against common sense. Hmmm......Wow. Gut is to follow the Consitiution
Click to expand...

Trust your gut instead of Mike Savage mentality. You'll sleep better at night too. :)
 
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