Compare Vintage Winchesters to Modern Winchesters/Stoegers Owner comments?

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fl2ak

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Okay, so I'm looking for opinions and comments from owners/shooters/hunters. I currently have a Winchester Model 12 3" Heavy Duck (built 1935), a Winchester Model 24 SXS (built 1947) and a Winchester Model 50 (built 1950 or 51), all of which are family heirlooms, all of which I love dearly, BUT, I just can't get non steel ammo for them anymore. It simply doesn't exist in Alaska and NO ONE will ship ammo to Alaska. Sadly, I am beginning to think about purchasing a shotgun with which I can shoot the dreaded steel shot, as that is all there is now.

Is there anyone out there who can comment on how their Winchester SXP compares to a Model 12 that might have once owned or used? Likewise, is there anyone who can compare their SX3 to a Model 50? Sadly, the SXS market (at reasonable prices) is non existent. Does anyone who owns a Stoeger SXS (probably the Upland model) have any comment or comparison on that gun for upland birds?
 
MidwayUSA says they will deliver ammo to Alaska, and they have plenty of lead and non-toxic options. It is not inexpensive ($50 to ship five boxes of shotshells), but it is less expensive than a new gun.
 
Winchester SX3 is a quality shotgun. Now it cant compare to a Super SX1 but then no semi suto shotgun ever made can. SX3 compares favorably with the B guns at its price point and is more reliable then any comparable current model Remington. I shot a few rounds with a Model 50 back many years ago.
SX3 is better balanced and handles like a more modern gun. A similar comparison would be an A5 to a Maxus. SX3 is reliable mass produced shotgun but it is not an icon like the SX1. For real world use and to protect a family heirloom the SX3 is an excellent choice.

Stoeger is not in the same class as Winchester. Maybe an O/U instead of SXS? Current model Winchester 101? CDNN has good deals.
 
The 24, while well-made, you might find a tad heavy for going through the uplands - I guess that will depend on what your uplands are like.

A used Ugartechea (aka "Uggie), can be found used in good condition for around $1,000 and should weigh ab out 1 pound less

There are a lot of semis out there from a wide variety of quality makers - FN and Beretta are probably the 2 best. (Remember that FN now owns FN, Browning and Winchester)
 
Farscott, negative. No online retailer anywhere on the planet will ship any ammo to Alaska at any price. All shipments to AK via UPS, FedEX, USPS, MUST go by air. There absolutely is NO ground shipping to AK-for ANY product. No ammo can be shipped by air to anywhere. (You can carry 50 lbs of ammo in your checked bag at Alaska Airlines, but you can't ship a single box.) Trust me, I've been through this over and over with every major online retailer: it simply cannot be done, no matter how much you're willing to pay.

VAHERDER: I chuckled at how you classified the SX3 as a "B" gun. At my income level, a $1500 gun better be the best thing on the planet lol. I really can't afford to buy an SX3, but neither I am going to go buy an 870 or 500 either. And no, I never intended to put Stoeger in the same class as Winchster-even their post 64 guns or these modern FN's. (You can tell, I'm all about the vintage Winchesters =) But I do see Stoeger as an entry level way into shooting steel, which well get me and my dog back into the field with legal ammo and at least cosmetically, allow me to still cling to those older ways.

ONE OUNCE: I'm much obliged for the "Uggie" recommendation. Their guns seem to be almost a clone of my Model 24. And yes, I guess they are heavy. My 10 yr old son carried mine (20 ga) on his first hunt (grouse) earlier this month, and that was his chief complaint.
 
Farscott, negative. No online retailer anywhere on the planet will ship any ammo to Alaska at any price.
Click to expand...

So just how does Alaska get ammo if no one ships to them? It is coming from someone - maybe give Ken @ Wild West Guns in Anchorage a call and ask them
 
I talked to the guys at Wild West, no go. The retailers here order pallets and pallets of ammunition a few times per year from their standard distributors, from whatever they offer, and it goes by truck to a Alaska Freight Forwarding in SEATAC (Seattle) and from there by barge up the Alaska Marine Highway system to either Seward or Anchorage. From there, Alaska Freight Forwarding delivers it, either by truck to retailers in communities that are on the road system, by Alaska Ferry to communities down in Kodiak, the west coast, or the Aleutians. The ONLY time the ammo goes on a plane is for bush community orders in interior Alaska, and then it uiually goes either by Northern Air Cargo, which will ship ammo/dangerous goods/HAZMAT to itnterior AK or by private bush plane.

For example, I would have liked very much to have purchased some Fiocchi Tundra. Wild West sells a LOT of different Fiocchi ammo, including shotshells, but not the non steel non tox stuff. When I asked them to order some from their distributor, who very obviously distributes Fiocchi products, I was told that I would have to wait until Spring when their next order for Fiocchi goes out. Same with Hevi-Shot Classic Doubles.

The mistake that I made was in assuming that there would be ammo available inthe Fall, closer to season. I was not alarmed in April when I coldn't buy Tungsten Matrix, Tundra, etc, because it's a seasonal product. I assumed that, when the waterfowl ammo came in, there would be something for me t choose from. I didn't exect the local retailers to stock thousands of boxes in every available brand and load, mind you-I recognize that it has become a niche market, but I wasn't prepared for there to be NO retailers offering ANY ammo AT ALL for my guns ANYWHERE in the area. That is the one thing about this that has shocked, frustrated, and angered me so much.
 
Interesting that no one will ship. I assumed MidwayUSA would because I put in a Fairbanks, AK ZIP code in the "Estimate shipping" tool and it gave me a price.

Another thought: Does it make sense to reload for your classics? A MEC Jr. is a very inexpensive way to start reloading. Reloading will allow you to run lead or non-toxic shot and most of the supplies should be able to be shipped to you. Reloading also allows you to tailor loads for your guns. Are powder and primers readily available?
 
I have begun to put some thought into that. At one time, I reloaded using a Dillon 550 for my match rifle, so I know the concept. At the moment, I'm not at all set up to reload shotgun. Retailers here do sell powder and primer on a pretty dependable basis.

One of the things that has kept me out of that is the legality of reloaded ammo when waterfowl hunting. It's illegal to carry lead ammo when waterfowl hunting. Commercial steel shot is stamped "steel" right on the hull. How do I prove to Mr. Game Warden that my reloads are NOT lead?

The other reason is that I was looking for a quick fix to my problem, rather than a long term solution. I wanted either ammo now, not later, or a gun now, not later, that could shoot the available ammo.

In the long view, reloading COULD be viable, but if Midway et al stops offering bismuth shot as a loading component, I'm back to square one.
 
Right, Dave, and when his magnet doesn't grab my non steel, non ferrous, yet non toxic reloaded shotshell, then what?

Although, come to think of it, I don't know for sure if tungsten-marix or bismuth is magnetic or not.
 
DarnifIknow. Use a fridge magnet and get back to me. I'll try some Hevishot when I get home....
 
SX 3

SX 3 is the old Browning Gold and can be had for under $1k new in black 28" barrel 3". A new Maxus can be had for around the same price in 3".

In a semi take a look at the Mossberg 930. Weighs about 8lbs. Amxus under 7lbs.

Check CDNN they might have a really good deal.
 
I grew up shooting my father's Model 12 20 ga. that he bought in the '50s. A few years back I bought a field grade SX-1 with MOD choke and an SX-2 Waterfowl (3.5", camo, and the Duratouch coated synthetic stock is great in the rain and snow. It solves the slick plastic problem.)

All I can say is I really like all three of them, although I've never fired a 3.5" shell. The SX-2 was a 2003 gun and barely used by a turkey hunter. I gave $750 for it. It patterns Hevi-Shot well.

The SX-3's I've looked at were lighter than my SX-2 and seemed a little nicer for walking around guns.

That's all I know this morning.

John
 
Thanks, John. SO, would you say your SX guns were the equal, in terms of overall quality, fit, finish, durability, etc. to your Model 12?
 
"would you say your SX guns were the equal, in terms of overall quality, fit, finish, durability, etc. to your Model 12? "

The SX-1, yes, absolutely. It might be better than the Model 12. It's at least the equal in terms of quality machined parts and fit.

The SX-2, no, but it feels right and handles well and it works. I like it a lot more than my 1100 black synthetic.
 
"It might be better than the Model 12." GASP!!!! Sacrilege!!! Blasphemer!!! LOL =)

"I like it a lot more than my 1100 black synthetic." To be expected.

Thanks, John. Maybe I should look for an older SX1 then.
 
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