Loads for pre-64 Winchesters (My 1st post here)

[fl2ak]

Hello to all, and thanks to those who might respond.

I am researching what is both safe and legal to use in my antique Winchesters for duck and geese hunting. I have a.) Winchester Model 50 built in the early 50's I htink) w/ 30" bbl and modified choke, b.) Winchester Model 12 3" Heavy Duck w/ 30" bbl and modified choke (built in 1935) and a Winchester Model 24 sxs in 20 ga w/ 28"bbl and built in 1947. I would like to use the two 12 ga guns for duck and geese hunting as well as Ptarmagain. I would like to give the 20 ga to my 9 yr old for ptarmagain hunting. (His first hunt.-Mine too come to think of it.)

My problem is, as I understand it, my only load options are tungsten-matrix and bismuth. Is this correct? (these are hard to find and pricey.) Can anyone suggest other options, where I can buy it (online perhaps) or the proper loads to use that won't damage the barrels of our guns. (These are all family keepsakes.)

Second question: I unwittingly shot a box of steel no. 8 shot through each of the 12 gauges last year. I can't find any obvious damage. Did I get away with it or should I have the barrel inspected or x rayed or something?

Thanks for your input.

 

[fl2ak]

hello?

 

[rcmodel]

No need atall to have it x-rayed or "professionally inspected" or anything like that.
Inspect the barrel interior with a strong light from the muzzle end yourself.

Look for any steel shot scoring or scratches on the inside of the bore.
Or any sign or shadow line in the bluing of a ring or bulge on the outside blued surface right where the choke constriction starts on the inside.

If you see nothing inside or out, you did not damage the barrel.

You are correct that your only load options for waterfowl hunting are tungsten-matrix and bismuth.
Unfortunately, both are very expensive, but how many ducks are you gonna kill in a season?

rc

 

[fl2ak]

Thanks for the reply. So, based on that, I think I got away with it...once. It won't happen again.

On a side note, bismuth and tungsten matrix are REALLY hard to find. I guess it's a niche market.

 

[chas08]

For what it's worth, I dont' think you were lucky. I think a lot of the old rules for shooting steel simply aren't true with modern shells. I have run several boxes of both steel and hevi-shot through my 1962 vintage 12ga mod choked 2 3/4" Model 12 with no outwardly apparent ill effects.

I studied spent shotcups for a while before deciding to do it. Scuff throughs are practically non existant in modern shotcups. They are definitely head and shoulders above the junk of the 80's. And I'm not advocating that you follow suit, but if the steel isn't touching the barrel, and the compressibility is built into the shotcup, what can it hurt?

I wouldn't do it with anything tighter than modified, I certainly wouldn't risk a Belgian Browning. But I have, and will continue to use it in my Model 12 until I see some negative effect.

As a side note, the steel was Remington and Federal #2 steel and #4 &#6 Hevi-Shot all between 1300 and 1350 fps velocity.

 

[Smokey in PHX]

I hunted out of a duck club in Illinois for about five years with a guide who used a very old 870 Wingmaster full choke shotgun. I do not believe any bluing remained on the gun. I don't know the age but he said it was very old. We used steel shot all the time. He was very accurate and rarely missed a shot with that gun. I questioned him on that practice and he said he never had a problem with it.

 

[rcmodel]

870's always had thick barrel walls compaired to a Winchester Model 12 or a Browning.

Swaging the choke out of an 870 barrel with steel shot would take some doing!

rc

 

[mr16ga]

You can get these guns a set of removable chokes rated for steel if you want. I think these guys, http://www.briley.com/briley-shotguns.aspx can install choke tubes for you also they can lengthen (re-taper) the forcing cone as well which will give you better patterns.

 

[fl2ak]

what about buck shot?

Sorry to resurrect this from the dead, but I've run into ooooone more question that I haven't been able to find an answer too.

I'm taking the Model 50 (full choke, pre-64 gun) out for Grouse in central Alaska in three weeks; my son will be carrying the Model 24 20 ga (this is his first hunt). This is an area where we sometimes see black bear and moose. Season will be open on both.

I am thinking about carrying some 00 or 000 buckshot (I have a box of each, 9 pellet count I think) in case we run into either a bear or moose. (Black bear season is open year around there and moose season opens same day as grouse.)

My question is can I shoot lead buck shot in a full choked pre-64 barrel without damaging it?

 

[rcmodel]

Most certainly.

2 3/4" Buckshot or Foster type rifled slugs are perfectly safe in your guns.

The were both invented when most shotguns had thin barrels and tight chokes.
They won't hurt a thing.

The only thing you must avoid is steel shot loads, and of course 3" and 3 1/2" shells.

rc

 

[fl2ak]

Thank you for refocusing my attention. I've seen this discussion in a lot of forums today, as I have been searching for an answer. You're the first to mention that, hose rounds were made when my gun was made.