competitive bbl maintenance

[spitballer]

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got was to slow my rate of fire down to 1 shot per minute, and I thank the pros on this thread for setting me straight on this. However, a problem remains: I'm curious as to how barrel cleanliness enters the picture competitively. For example, If I'm given 22 minutes to shoot two sighters and twenty scoring rounds, how do I manage barrel maintenance? In between rounds, maybe? Is this even allowed? I hear stories of guys that rod their barrel every few rounds and I'm beginning to understand why. I'm never able to keep a tight group for more than one target at a time before fouling takes it's toll. This really seems to be a dynamic process, and I need to know how the pros manage it. Attached photo illustrates:

Photo of from yesterday's shoot (.223 55gr) at 400: groups like the one on the left are acceptable, but fleeting. Subsequent target on right shows typical lateral spread of next target. Is this why the pros rod their barrel so often? How is this managed during competition?

 

[Laphroaig]

The only "pros" I have ever heard of that do that are some benchrest guys. In fact, many people think that a barrel shoots better after it is fouled. I've found that my barrels shoot accurately even after several highpower matches (about 60-88 rounds/match) without cleaning.

Hmm, 55 gr. at 400 yds. Could some of that horizontal dispersion be due to a gust or two of wind?

Laphroaig

 

[rskent]

Most of the matches I shoot are 50 or 80 rounds plus sighters. My rifle seems to take 5 or 6 rounds to settle in. So if the match has unlimited sighters I try to shoot 5 or 6 quick sighters before I get serious.
Most of the time I can watch my rifle find the x ring. Come to think of it, it might be my eyes. I will have to look into that.


Where is there a 400 yard range in central Florida?

 

[g.willikers]

One round per minute?
I'd fall asleep from boredom.
The Manatee Club, off Rt 64 east of Bradenton, Fl, south of Tampa, has ranges out to 1,000 yds.

 

[Ifishsum]

I'm not a pro but I never saw anybody rod their barrel during HP/service rifle comp; not sure about other disciplines but for any timed fire relays I rather doubt it. Both my M1 Garand and AR15 will do 50/80rd courses without a noticeable decline in accuracy (that I can blame on the rifle anyway). Do you have a new barrel? A decent barrel shouldn't foul out like that in 10-20 rds.

In .223 past 200-300yds, most shooters use a heavier bullet; for me it's usually the 69gr SMK. Makes a big difference at 300+ yds IMO. One match this summer I was shooting next to a new shooter with an AR15 who was using 55gr FMJ, he did okay at 200 but by the time we got to 600 yds he was having trouble keeping them on the target board.

 

[Jim Watson]

A high end target barrel will shoot dirty, it will shoot hot. You do not have time to clean your rifle between shots or between strings or between matches, it has to hit.

A cheap crooked factory barrel may well do its best when clean or at some particular "condition" like from shots 6 through 16.

 

[spitballer]

Could some of that horizontal dispersion be due to a gust or two of wind?...

This particular morning we had a very steady 1-2 mph of cold air from right to left. No gusts to speak of. My first flyers always kick out to the left, and for the longest time I thought it was due to the predominantly right-to-left wind pattern of this particular range, but I've determined that it is in fact the behavior of the flyers (related to RH twist?). Continued shooting after first flyers results in lateral movement to the right also, as shown by target on right.

rskent - this would be at the Manatee range in Manatee County FL, as posted by g.willikers. Are these 50-80 round matches that you speak of done with FMJ's?

Ifishsum - it makes sense that service rifle matches would not allow time out for cleaning, as they essentially demonstrate battlefield skills with military equipment which is not designed to have to be cleaned during use. My inquiry is rather more directed to the benchrest crowd. I shoot for personal achievement only, and am using smaller bullets that present a worthy challenge at shorter, more accessible ranges.

Jim Watson - I'm assuming that you also are not referring to bench rest. Some types of equipment could actually benefit from a little fouling.

Thanks to everyone for their input. No responses from frequent rodders so perhaps I've chosen an inappropriate forum. For the time being I'll load a charge that gives me at least five centered rounds in a clean barrel before the first flyer, and rod between targets. Questions for the benchrest crowd in addition to frequency of cleaning would have been about copper fouling vs powder fouling, choice of cleaning materials and sequence of use, and layout of cleaning equipment for accessibility and quick turnaround.

 

[Jim Watson]

Serious match shooting is not done with FMJs.
If you shot your worse group above at 400 yards with FMJs you are doing very well.

Lateral dispersion in calm air is often due to "cheek mirage", that is as the day wears on, you are not as consistent in your gun mount.

Yes, I know some, even most, barrels benefit from a little fouling. That is where the post about "unlimited sighters" came in. As I said, a factory barrel will probably be more sensitive to "condition" than a premium aftermarket.

I am not up to date on current benchrest rituals, you might check over at 6mmbr.com

 

[1KPerDay]

My groups look like that at 25 yards.

 

[tuj]

For long distance shooting, quality ammo becomes a big factor. Quality ammo will not leave your barrel "fouled" so badly that subsequent shots are off.

Like said, good barrels will shoot well even if they are hot or fouled. Most of the time after cleaning a barrel the first few shots are off of zero until the barrel fouls-in.

 

[ford8nr]

and am using smaller bullets that present a worthy challenge at shorter, more accessible ranges.

Why would you do that and then worry about optimum barrel condition? I shoot vintage military 50rd matches (off a bench) and 40 rd sillouete matches offhand. It's not uncommon to shoot 2 matches in a day without cleaning and without a loss of accuracy. I'm thinking it's a shooter issue. I know when I first started shooting vintage the first 30 shots were very consistent. The next 20 I had to work hard on not to send a couple fliers.

 

[spitballer]

you might check over at 6mmbr.com...

Definitely. Will do. I can remember visiting there before and getting good info, although I have some disagreement with their assertion that brass [always becomes soft when it's heated]. Fortunately I've had to do a lot less annealing with the undersize neck and this is no longer a major issue.

tuj - Very good point. "Soft" fouling from burnt powder may not always be so soft, and with a full case of slow ball powder there's probably the concern about abrasion in the throat area as well. l've been loading conservatively and trying to provide a "cushion" between the projectile and the bore surface, but this "cushion" is a probably a lot thinner than anything I'd be getting with FMJ's, and thus you are right: a well designed round won't leave a lot of fouling in the barrel.

ford8nr - presumably the harder FMJ's keep the bore clean as they travel through, knocking off fouling as it builds up. Softer varmint bullets will do the same thing, but at a lower pressure and with less clearance. Chrony data suggests to me that this fouling cycle occurs every 3 - 5 rounds. Soft varmint bullets also complicate matters by readily depositing copper fouling, and with enough pressure I'm sure FMJ's would too. Fortunately for the military, FMJ's can build up a lot of speed in a short amount of time without fouling. Guys shooting softer bullets (esp cast) don't have this luxury.

Thanks again for responses. I'll be visiting 6mmbr.com and checking on sources of information for cast bullet shooting also. Be safe. - TH

 

[W.E.G.]

My personal best at 600 with 5.56 service rifle was 198.
Had to hang one 8 at 3 o'clock.

Krieger barrel had not been cleaned for two weeks and 400 rounds.

23.5 grains N540 80SMK(moly)

 

[W.E.G.]

That barrel never EVER saw a brush.

Squirt of Break Free down the bore, and a few patches and chamber swabbing every few hundred rounds.

Except for a bit of alligatoring ahead of the throat, rest of barrel looked great when I finally retired it at around 8000 rounds.

 

[rskent]

Spitballer
I have shot at Manatee, but never a match. If I am not mistaking their matches are CMP (no sighters)
I just buy Match Kings and try to focus on shooting. Doesn't always work, but that’s the plan.

 

[CLP]

good shootin!

 

[ford8nr]

Keep coming back to this post as I'm interested in opinions on it. Got me to thinkin' ... Why don't you focus on WHY you have fouling every 3-5 shots and not how to clean during a match. A barrel fouling that fast isn't normal.

 

[Walkalong]

Benchrest shooters clean after every group. They don't scrub the barrel squeaky clean though, just a leisurely cleaning. Fire a fouling shot and your good to go.

F-Class shooters have to shoot more rounds before they can clean, just the nature of the beast.

The best quality barrels not only shoot straighter, but shoot straighter longer because they foul less.

 

[Trent]

Right now, I shoot 2-3 f-class matches (60 rounds each) between cleanings.

Eventually throat erosion will get to the point on my 300 win mag that I will no longer be able to shoot ONE 20 shot string without cleaning. Such is the nature of the beast with magnums. My last barrel on this rifle, I shot until it was good for 4-5 shots max between cleanings.

The funny thing? My groups continually got better on that last barrel right up until the day the machinist at Krieger unscrewed the barrel nut to fit the new barrel.

Which ... Something to be said about the advantages and disadvantages of freebore.

 

[huntinfool87]

For long range look at YouTube video sniper101 barrel break in. He tells you how to set your gun up for first shot (cold bore) precision. It's a great series Over 80 videos in all but he goes too great depths on long range shooting and gun maintenance.