Competitor Self Defense?

[Guntalk]

Forgive me if this has been hashed to death, but I'm wondering if there have been any/some instances of competitive IDPA or IPSC shooters using their guns in self defense.

This weekend at the range someone who should know said their had been several, and the competitors did a fine job of protecting themselves.

Anyone heard of such?

 

[ACP230]

Massad Ayoob wrote up a couple of self-defense shootings involving people who were on the way back from the range. I don't recall if competitors, as such, were involved.

I heard a story that some years ago a bunch of folks from the Michigan's U.P. were down below the bridge for a pistol match. (It might even have been Perry.) On the way home the carload of Upper Michigan's finest bullseye shooters ended up in a section of Detroit they hadn't intended to visit. (A "shortcut" may have been involved.)
As I heard it the driver suddenly spoke,
"Give me a gun, any gun. Load it." Some scrambling ensued, but soon had had a loaded target .45 at hand.

(In case anyone things Im being cute here, I've never been to Perry, or shot a bullseye match below the bridge. Used to carry with a permit at the old Second Chance Shoot though.)

There was no trouble, but the driver was ready to stop whatever someone else started.

Now, since MI is a shall-issue state, the driver would have been carrying concealed.

 

[Matthew Temkin]

Are you the same Tom Gresham who writes for OUTDOOR LIFE?.
If so, then I am a great fan and would like to offer you a hearty welcome.
Sorry, but I can not offer any answers to your question, since I must plead total ignorance on the topic.

 

[Art Eatman]

Not too long after I moved to Terlingua in 1983, I got crosswise with a drug-smuggling family who lived on acreage adjacent to mine. I blew the whistle on their methods and route. They were not pleased.

Another neighbor of mine came down one day to see what all the noise was about when I was doing some IPSC-style practice at my pistol range. He spread it around our Center of Intellectual Studies and Local Gossip that I was the deadliest thing since Wyatt Masterson and Bat Earp.

Later gossip had it that my reputation had possibly played a part in not having any notable problems from my smuggler-neighbors. (FWIW, the neighbors were of the Acosta clan; Pablo Acosta was the kingpin Drug Lord of Ojinaga, Mexico. There's a biography of him of that title by Terence Poppas that's interesting reading.)

But, no, no real-life adventurous uses...

Art

 

[Trebor]

I read about an incident in South America where a competitive shooter (Olympic or big-time IPSC, cant' remember which) faced some attackers who, IIRC, tried to kidnap him. Once he had a chance to load his gun, they never had a chance against him.

I can't remember where I saw that. Possibly a "Ayoob Files" awhile back.

 

[Art Eatman]

Got to thinking about this a bit more. The numbers make it improbable.

We read of very few involvements "on the street" between CHL people and Bad Guys. I'm omitting the storekeeper deals, since few have CHLs or need them, and they're commonly not in IPSC or IDPA.

Of CHL folks, only a small percentage are in IPSC or IDPA, meaning even less likelihood of involvement.

Then you get to thinking about the little things like where folks go at what time of day/night, and how they behave insofar as appearing as likely victims--the body-language thing, for instance...

I'd suggest this question be asked of the editors at "Front Sight".

Art

 

[El Tejon]

Sure, I know of several. For starters, how about that gun shoppe owner in Tejas who was/is an IPSCer (cannot remember his name). Repelled boarders with a shotgun.

My fave was the Romanian Olympic shooter that killed thosed secret police snipers in '91. Tied with the Brazlian Olympic shooter that was subjected to an attempted carjack. Bad day to be a bad guy.

 

[Gordon]

Being the Truth is :"An armed society is a polite society" I don't think you have ANY incidences where somebody gets upset at match results and says ' Rob;you cheating SOB - draw!' if thats what you are asking about?

 

[HankB]

IDPA/IPSC competitors probably have awareness a notch or two above blissninny obliviousness, and so are more likely to avoid trouble in the first place.

Another factor is that the media doesn't like stories about "good" shoots by anyone other than sworn peace officers. It wouldn't surprise me at all if stories like this were generally "spiked" by the media, or relegated to a column-inch or so on page 14D.

 

[Steve Smith]

ACP230's story shows a difference between some competitors and others. The Bullseye Pistol competitor had to tell someone to load a pistol and hand it to him. A Highpower shooter or an IDPA/IPSC shooter will already have a loaded gun on his/her body, and more than likely a 30 round AR mag loaded with AP somewhere in the truck.

 

[Gary H]

The folks who edit "American Rifleman" must have a good database of self-defense stories since this has been a regular feature for years. Perhaps they could provide a name.

 

[ACP230]

Steve:
Before 2001 Michigan was a "may issue" state. Practically, that meant the only people who had carry permits were ex-cops and cronies of the County Sheriff.
Carrying a loaded handgun in a vehicle was a two-year felony.
Not too many Michiganders were willing to take the chance, unless as in my tale, the threat was extremely high.

I believe most, if not all, of the folks involved now have carry permits.
I doubt if they take "shortcuts" that lead through crime-ridden parts of Detroit despite that.

 

[Gordon]

OK I see what you want. Two cases in Monterey County Calif. Come to mind: Jaime the owner of Rositas' in Salinas Ca. Went to at least 2 if not more training seminars at Gunsite in early 80's. He competed with me in IPSC thru about 1987. In 89 or 90 two fool armed robbers tried to hold up his place. He was not hasseled for the two armed corpses that were drilled multiple times COM with his ever present Commander .45. in front of many witnesses. Second example was a local Grocer of either Chinese or Japanese extraction who was trained and shot in matches in late 80's early 90's until two more fine local Mexican youths robbed him at gunpoint and were both dead before they could reach the front door . He shot one when they attempted to pistol whip him and pissed as hell , he shot the other when he turned and fired as he was fleeing his fallen homie. The local Lulac made this guys life miserable (seems had shot other robbers before but not as dramatically) and he sold out and went fishing, as I heard the story!

 

[wella]

Mike Dalton, old time master from the

sw Pistol league, which had been Cooper's training ground for learning what he calls the "new method", wrote an article a while back, stating he simply outdrew a BG, when Mike was a uniformed cop.

I myself have drawn on men twice. Once was really a threat, the other was a stupid kid nearly making the last practical joke of his life. On both occasions, the gun just seemed to "grow" out of my wrist. I needed it, and it was there. The same thing happened 3 other times, but 2 were against trained attack dog, which had gotten away from its handler(my partner) on 2 separate occasions, and the 3rd was on a snarling mutt that just came out of the dark at me as I walked down a street. I used a Bianchi thumbsnap during that first "dog" period, openly worn. One of the occasions against men, the pistol was IWB in front of the hip, openly worn, the other was IWB, FBI style, concealed. For the life of me, I couldn't remember if I'd cleared the shirt with the weak hand. Probably so, cause that's the way I mostly practiced. The latter dog incident, I had the pc FBI style, under a field jacket that I'd snapped shut, except for the bottom button.

 

[45crittergitter]

A few years ago, in Jackson, MS, a National Police Shooting Championship competitor, a corrections officer from Meridian, MS, was the victim of an attempted robbery at his motel as he returned from competing in the NPSC ! Score: officer fine, robber shot dead.

 

[TaxPhd]

A review of "The Ayoob Files" will turn up the Marc Halcon incident. Marc was a victim of polio, but didn't let it get him down. A fine IPSC competitor that sucessfully repelled boarders.

Marc was voted "Most Tactical Shooter" at the 1984 IPSC Nationals, IIRC, and he helped me get started at my first IPSC match back in '84.



Scott