Concealed carry in Arkansas without license

[NavyLCDR]

As long as I don't possess a handgun with "a purpose to attempt to unlawfully employ the handgun, knife, or club as a weapon against a person", I can't find the Arkansas law that makes it illegal to conceal the handgun without a license.

Can anyone cite the Arkansas law that makes it illegal to conceal the handgun without a license? THANKS!

 

[Midwest]

Wiki says no permit needed for conceal carry but then contradicts this.
How did I miss this in the news?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Arkansas

"As of August 16, 2013, Arkansas allows concealed carry without a permit, but continues to offer CCW permits on a "shall issue" basis. However, open carry of handguns is not permitted"


"Carry permits issued? (Statutes >>) 5-73-301 - 5-73-320 As of August 16, 2013, concealed carry of a handgun without a permit is legal, although CCW permits are still available on a "Shall-Issue" basis. On July 8, 2013 Arkansas Attorney General clarified that the ban on openly carrying handguns in public remains in effect.[1]"

Further down, there is a contradiction.

"[In Arkansas, before concealing a firearm on or about your person without first obtaining a valid Arkansas permit, check with local police. There is no law in Arkansas that allows concealed carry without a valid concealed carry permit.]"


NRAILA seems to say something different

http://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-laws/arkansas.aspx


"CARRYING

It is unlawful for a person to possess a handgun on or about his person, in a vehicle occupied by him, or otherwise readily available for use with a purpose to employ it as a weapon against a person. It is also unlawful to possess a firearm upon the property of public or private schools, public or private college or upon a school bus.

It is a defense that at the time of the act:

The person is in his own dwelling or place of business or on property in which he has a possessor or proprietary interest.
The person is a law enforcement officer, prison guard, or member of the armed forces, acting in the course and scope of official duties.
The person is, by request, assisting a law enforcement officer, prison guard, or member of the armed forces acting in the course and scope of his official duties.
The person is carrying a handgun when upon a journey, unless he is under 18.
The person is a licensed security guard acting in the course and scope of his duties.
The person is taking a hunter safety course, hunting or going to and from such activities.
The person is taking part in a school approved educational or sporting activity.
The person is a minor engaged in lawful marksmanship competition or practice or other lawful recreational shooting under the supervision of his parent or legal guardian or is traveling to or from this activity with an unloaded handgun or firearm accompanied by his parent or legal guardian.

Arkansas courts have held that there is a legal presumption of fact that a loaded handgun under the front seat or in the glove compartment of a car driven by the defendant has been placed there as a weapon. This presumption may be refuted by proof offered by the defendant, but it is a question of fact for the jury to decide whether the handgun is carried as a weapon. Generally, law enforcement authorities agree that an unloaded and cased handgun is not carried as a weapon.

It is lawful to carry a handgun concealed with a license. Application for a license to carry a handgun concealed is made to the Arkansas State Police. The license is valid throughout the state for 5 years from the date of issuance and may include up to 3 handguns. The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification."


And then there is this

http://www.littlerockconcealedcarry.com/arkansasgunlaw.php

"No license to carry a concealed handgun issued pursuant to this subchapter authorizes any person to carry a concealed handgun into:"

And then lists over 20 areas prohibited from carrying


.

 

[Midwest]

Constitutional Carry Arkansas

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitutional_Carry#Arkansas

Arkansas

"On April 4, 2013 Arkansas Governor Mike Beebe signed legislation to allow Constitutional Carry.[2][3] The law decriminalizes the carry of handguns for self-defense purposes, and puts the burden upon a prosecutor to prove criminal intent of a person carrying a handgun. Also, there are no specifications whether a legally carried handgun should be carried openly or concealed; thus it is considered Constitutional Carry. This law will go into effect in August 2013. Attorney General Dustin McDaniel has issued an opinion on Act 746 of 2013 stating that the newly defined "journey" term does not, authorize constitutional carry in Arkansas, but admits that the change in the mens rea of the offense for "carrying a weapon" is up for debate, but is outside of the scope of the question presented for this particular opinion. The previous law made carrying a weapon with the purpose to use it against another person a crime. The new law changed the mens rea to carrying a weapon with the purpose to attempt to unlawfully use the weapon against another person. See Opinion No. 2013-047, footnote 7 dated July 8, 2013 or visit his Web site at http://arkansasag.gov/opinions/index.php."

 

[NavyLCDR]

In Arkansas, before concealing a firearm on or about your person without first obtaining a valid Arkansas permit, check with local police. There is no law in Arkansas that allows concealed carry without a valid concealed carry permit.

If there is no law prohibiting it, there does not have to be a law that allows it. There is no law that allows me to wear socks with sandals, yet it is legal.

It is a defense that at the time of the act:

The person is in his own dwelling or place of business or on property in which he has a possessor or proprietary interest.
The person is a law enforcement officer, prison guard, or member of the armed forces, acting in the course and scope of official duties.
The person is, by request, assisting a law enforcement officer, prison guard, or member of the armed forces acting in the course and scope of his official duties.
The person is carrying a handgun when upon a journey, unless he is under 18.
The person is a licensed security guard acting in the course and scope of his duties.
The person is taking a hunter safety course, hunting or going to and from such activities.
The person is taking part in a school approved educational or sporting activity.
The person is a minor engaged in lawful marksmanship competition or practice or other lawful recreational shooting under the supervision of his parent or legal guardian or is traveling to or from this activity with an unloaded handgun or firearm accompanied by his parent or legal guardian.

Under the new law, these are no longer "defenses". The above are simply now additional permissives. Since the prohibition that they used to be exemptions to went away with the new law, I have no idea why they even bothered to keep these additional permissives.

 

[ngnrd]

When exactly did Wiki become a valid source of legal information?

Seriously.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

As an Arkansawyer, I do not recommend carry without a Concealed Handgun License. The law is too ambiguous.

Essentially, you can carry IF you are on a journey outside your home county, and are not carrying the weapon with intent to use it illegally.

That doesn't mean you can't be arrested, or that some analy-retentive prosecutor can't try to get you convicted.

 

[NavyLCDR]

As an Arkansawyer, I do not recommend carry without a Concealed Handgun License. The law is too ambiguous.

Essentially, you can carry IF you are on a journey outside your home county, and are not carrying the weapon with intent to use it illegally.

That doesn't mean you can't be arrested, or that some analy-retentive prosecutor can't try to get you convicted.

If I am walking two blocks from my house to the grocery store carrying a handgun in a holster openly or concealed without a license, not in a school zone, can you tell us what law would be violated? Should we live our lives by what we might be arrested for, or live our lives by what the law actually says? There has to be a prohibition stated in law for something to be illegal, does there not?

 

[Midwest]

When exactly did Wiki become a valid source of legal information?

Seriously.

It says the same thing here as wiki

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2013/04/robert-farago/arkansas-is-fifth-constitutional-carry-state/


"In July, 2013, Arkansas will become the fifth state in the United States to enact “Constitutional Carry” into law. Act 746 of the 2013 General Assembly was signed into law by Governor Mike Beebe on April 4th, 2013, "


And the same here

http://www.mississippigunnews.com/a...-permit-or-license-required-to-carry-weapons/

"“In July, 2013, Arkansas will become the fifth state in the United States to enact “Constitutional Carry” into law. Act 746 of the 2013 General Assembly was signed into law by Governor Mike Beebe on April 4th, 2013, after receiving only one “nay” vote from the legislature."

.

 

[improperlyaged]

If on a journey then yes. You can Carry a handgun for self defense purposes. We here in Arkieville have recently had a big tissy over the new law as it doesn't specify concealed or open. We are waiting for our legislators to fix the issues with the new law till we claim absolute victory in Constitutional carry

 

[NavyLCDR]

If on a journey then yes. You can Carry a handgun for self defense purposes. We here in Arkieville have recently had a big tissy over the new law as it doesn't specify concealed or open. We are waiting for our legislators to fix the issues with the new law till we claim absolute victory in Constitutional carry

And where is the requirement to be on a journey? Maybe I should post the exact law so everyone is informed. The only prohibition I see is in section (a), "with a purpose to attempt to unlawfully employ the handgun, knife, or club as a weapon against a person." Notice also the phrasing of section c, "it is permissible". Section c does not start with "Except in the following circumstances" or "it is a defense that". It only states what is permissible - but nothing about being any kind of exception or exemption to a prohibition. If section c listed exceptions to section a, then that would mean that it would be legal to have the purpose to attempt to unlawfully employ the weapon against a person if you were on a journey - or met any of the other conditions!

5-73-120. Carrying a weapon.

(a) A person commits the offense of carrying a weapon if he or she possesses a handgun, knife, or club on or about his or her person, in a vehicle occupied by him or her, or otherwise readily available for use with a purpose to attempt to unlawfully employ the handgun, knife, or club as a weapon against a person.

(b) As used in this section:

(1) "Club" means any instrument that is specially designed, made, or adapted for the purpose of inflicting serious physical injury or death by striking, including a blackjack, billie, and sap;

(2) "Handgun" means any firearm with a barrel length of less than twelve inches (12'') that is designed, made, or adapted to be fired with one (1) hand;

(3) "Journey" means travel beyond the county in which a person lives; and

(4) "Knife" means any bladed hand instrument three inches (3'') or longer that is capable of inflicting serious physical injury or death by cutting or stabbing, including a dirk, a sword or spear in a cane, a razor, an ice pick, a throwing star, a switchblade, and a butterfly knife.

(c) It is permissible to carry a handgun under this section if at the time of the act of carrying a weapon:

(1) The person is in his or her own dwelling or place of business or on property in which he or she has a possessory or proprietary interest;

(2) The person is a law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or member of the armed forces acting in the course and scope of his or her official duties;

(3) The person is assisting a law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or member of the armed forces acting in the course and scope of his or her official duties pursuant to the direction or request of the law enforcement officer, correctional officer, or member of the armed forces;

(4) The person is carrying a weapon when upon a journey, unless the journey is through a commercial airport when presenting at the security checkpoint in the airport or is in the person's checked baggage and is not a lawfully declared weapon;

(5) The person is a registered commissioned security guard acting in the course and scope of his or her duties;

(6) The person is hunting game with a handgun that may be hunted with a handgun under rules and regulations of the Arkansas State Game and Fish Commission or is en route to or from a hunting area for the purpose of hunting game with a handgun;

(7) The person is a certified law enforcement officer;

(8) The person is in possession of a concealed handgun and has a valid license to carry a concealed handgun under § 5-73-301 et seq., or recognized under § 5-73-321 and is not in a prohibited place as defined by § 5-73-306;

(9) The person is a prosecuting attorney or deputy prosecuting attorney carrying a firearm under § 16-21-147; or

(10) The person is in possession of a handgun and is a retired law enforcement officer with a valid concealed carry authorization issued under federal or state law.

(d) Carrying a weapon is a Class A misdemeanor.

 

[Drail]

Man and I thought Indiana was ambiguous. It's almost like that famous line - "it depends what the definition of "is" is." Huh?

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If I am walking two blocks from my house to the grocery store carrying a handgun in a holster openly or concealed without a license, not in a school zone, can you tell us what law would be violated? Should we live our lives by what we might be arrested for, or live our lives by what the law actually says?

Depends on how willing you are to risk jail, and how much money you have to pay lawyers.

I have a CHL and don't have to worry about things like that.

I also know the Attorney General, Dustin McDaniel, personally, and don't recommend getting into a position where your fate is in his hands.

 

[jerkface11]

I haven't figured out the purpose of this law. All it does is muddy the waters.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Depends on how willing you are to risk jail, and how much money you have to pay lawyers.

I have a CHL and don't have to worry about things like that.

I also know the Attorney General, Dustin McDaniel, personally, and don't recommend getting into a position where your fate is in his hands.

I didn't ask that. I asked what statute would I be breaking? Citation please, counselor.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

If you don't like my answer, go ahead and carry. It's no skin off my nose.

 

[NavyLCDR]

If you don't like my answer, go ahead and carry. It's no skin off my nose.

If you can't tell me what statute I would be violating then just say, "You wouldn't be violating any statute" or "I don't know what statute you would be violating."

Sounds like this is a case of "don't do XYZ, because if you do XYZ you will be arrested and have to defend yourself in court, even though there is no law that makes XYZ illegal." Does that about sum it up?

Kind of like this Oklahoma statute:

§21-1288. Purchases of firearms, ammunition and equipment from dealer licensed in another state - Purchases in Oklahoma by residents of other states.
A. Residents of the State of Oklahoma may purchase rifles, shotguns, ammunition, cartridge and shotgun shell handloading components and equipment from a dealer licensed in a state other than Oklahoma. This authorization is enacted in conformance with the provisions of Section 922(b)(3) of Title 18 of the United States Code and provided further that such residents conform to the provisions of law applicable to such purchase in the State of Oklahoma and the state in which the purchase is made.
B. Residents of a state other than Oklahoma may purchase rifles, shotguns, ammunition, cartridge and shotgun shell handloading components and equipment from a dealer licensed in the State of Oklahoma.

This statute says the residents of Oklahoma can purchase ammunition or reloading equipment from a dealer licensed in a state other than Oklahoma. So, I guess that Oklahoma residents should not purchase ammunition or a reloading press from anyone other than a licensed dealer outside Oklahoma...even though there is no law against buying from an unlicensed source, there is this law that allows purchasing from a licensed dealer.

Likewise as a resident of Washington, I should only buy a reloading press from a licensed dealer if I am in Oklahoma, because even though there is no law against buying a reloaded press from Joe Schmoe, this law says that I am permitted to buy one from a licensed dealer.

That would be the same logic, right?

 

[NavyLCDR]

Sounds like the answer is, "There is no law against carrying concealed without a license or open carry in Arkansas, but they might arrest you and convict you of something - we don't know what - if you do."

 

[Frank Ettin]

Too much heat and not enough light, not to mention the worthless excursion to Oklahoma and Washington law.

We have a statute which apparently was recently enacted. No one has cited any applicable decisional law which might help clarify how the statute might be applied by a court. No one has cited any legislative history which might be considered by a court when asked to figure out how the statute applies in a particular situation.

The bottom line is that there may be some uncertainty about how the statute will be applied under some circumstances. And unless/until someone can come up with some good case law/legislative history it is that much harder to predict what a court would do -- and what a court would do is what counts.

Reading a single statute in a vacuum is not the way to understand the law.

 

[NavyLCDR]

Reading a single statute in a vacuum is not the way to understand the law.

I'm not asking anyone to read any statute in a vacuum. I'm trying to find a citation to a law that makes it illegal to carry a handgun concealed in Arkansas without a license or to open carry a handgun in Arkansas. So far, nobody has been able to cite a statute that makes it illegal.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

If you have a Texas CCW your fine this new law has not been court tested and I wouldn't want to be the Test Case. My Family Lawyer in Ark said it a clusterflap waiting to happen.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Reading a single statute in a vacuum is not the way to understand the law.

I'm not asking anyone to read any statute in a vacuum. I'm trying to find a citation to a law that makes it illegal to carry a handgun concealed in Arkansas without a license or to open carry a handgun in Arkansas. So far, nobody has been able to cite a statute that makes it illegal.

You are by implication claiming that your understanding is correct and that no license is required to carry a concealed handgun in Arkansas. That might be correct, but your way of testing your reading of the statute is needlessly antagonistic and not helpful.

So I caution readers not to necessarily rely on NavyLCDR's reading of the statute. The fact that no one might know off the top of his head that there's some contrary Arkansas law or wants to undertake the research into the question does not make NavyLCDR correct. It merely means that no one wants to bother.

So at this point in the discussion anyone who decides to rely on NavyLCDR's reading of the statute does so at his peril.

 

[Spats McGee]

Well, as an Arkansas lawyer, maybe I can shed some light on this. Right now, Arkansas is in a transitional phase. A quick review of Arkansas case law indicates that the carrying of concealed weapons dates back at least until 1891, as does the "journey exemption." See Hathcote v. State, 55 Ark. 181, 17 S.W. 181 (1891). For more recent legislation, we turn to "Carrying a Weapon." Up until recent legislation, our statute at 5-73-120, "carrying a weapon" read as follows:

Carrying a weapon.
(a) A person commits the offense of carrying a weapon if he or she possesses a handgun, knife, or club on or about his or her person, in a vehicle occupied by him or her, or otherwise readily available for use with a purpose to employ the handgun, knife, or club as a weapon against a person.

Ark. Code Ann. 5-73-120

That section made it a crime to possess a handgun on or about his person with a purpose to employ it against a person. The statute made no distinction between an intention to use a firearm against a person in an unlawful manner (aggravated assault) and in a lawful manner (self defense or defense of others). Carrying a weapon concealed was sufficient to sustain a conviction under the old 5-73-120. See Nesdahl v. State, 319 Ark. 277, 890 S.W.2d 596 (1995).


Act 746, revised that section to read:

A person commits the offense of carrying a weapon if he or she possesses a handgun, knife, or club on or about his or her person, in a vehicle occupied by him or her, or otherwise readily available for use with a purpose to attempt to unlawfully employ the handgun, knife, or club as a weapon against a person.

Ark. Code Ann. § 5-73-120 (West)

It is currently under debate as to exactly what changes have been wrought by Act 746.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...It is currently under debate as to exactly what changes have been wrought by Act 746.

Thank you. That seems to be the definitive word at this stage.

 

[NavyLCDR]

You are by implication claiming that your understanding is correct and that no license is required to carry a concealed handgun in Arkansas. That might be correct, but your way of testing your reading of the statute is needlessly antagonistic and not helpful.

So I caution readers not to necessarily rely on NavyLCDR's reading of the statute. The fact that no one might know off the top of his head that there's some contrary Arkansas law or wants to undertake the research into the question does not make NavyLCDR correct. It merely means that no one wants to bother.

So at this point in the discussion anyone who decides to rely on NavyLCDR's reading of the statute does so at his peril.

You are assuming I am wrong. It is certainly equal possibility that I am correct that there is no law requiring a license to carry a concealed handgun and that open carry of a handgun is also legal, and the person who disarms themselves because they feel like they have no other legal option is needlessly doing so and placing themselves at increased risk of becoming the victim of a violent crime. So, I suppose for the person without a recognized license the choice becomes which they feel is a greater threat to themselves.

But, I guess I am just being antagonistic.

 

[Frank Ettin]

...I guess I am just being antagonistic...

Yes you are.

And since we have the definitive word from an actually lawyer who is licensed and practices in Arkansas; and that word is that the meaning and application of the statute is uncertain.

So I see no reason to continue this.