When Electronic Gun Safe locks fail??

[heeler]

This question is basically for the two safe guru's on the site.
There is a guy here at work that is buying a Sam's Winchester safe tomorrow that comes with only the electronic lock.
I told him though they are convient he will probably have issues with it sooner or later.
So my question is this.
When they do give up the ghost do you have to drill the lock only or the door of the safe??
If it is the lock that has to be drilled then at that time can a spinner S&G then be installed??
And if it's the door then i guess the safe at that point is probably pretty much worthless then,right??
Bear with me here because i dont know a thing about how safe locks operate.

Fwiw i am starting to see those electronic locks on some pretty expensive gun safes(or RSC"s if you prefer) and would be surprised that any manufacture would put something on an expensive safe that would have to have the door body drilled to open the safe after the failure of the lock.

 

[Im283]

Though I am not who you directed this too I may be able to answer.

I have a RSC with a electronic pad on it. The pad is removable frm the outside of the safe. If it fails there are locksmith who can hook up their keypad to it and open the door.
Then I assume they install a new keypad or a dial whatver you prefer.

If it is the end of the world and the lock fails since it is a RSC I can always beat a hole in it with a maul to get my stuff.

Try that with a 10,000 dollar safe ,ha

 

[a1abdj]

When they do give up the ghost do you have to drill the lock only or the door of the safe??

This depends on the particular failure. It is possible to access certain parts of the lock through the spindle hole that's already in the door (where the wires run). If it's not those particular parts that are causing the problem, then you have to drill holes in the door.

Most lock related holes would be placed beneath the dial/keypad so that they aren't visible. A fired relocker will usually require a hole outside of the dial/keypad area.

If it is the lock that has to be drilled then at that time can a spinner S&G then be installed??

Most modern UL rated locks share the same footprint. You could replace the lock now if you wanted to. If you are going to replace the lock with an S&G, make sure you use a 6730, and not the cheaper 6700's that are used in many gun safes.

And if it's the door then i guess the safe at that point is probably pretty much worthless then,right??

Nope. The safe can typically be repaired and placed back into service.

I have a RSC with a electronic pad on it. The pad is removable frm the outside of the safe. If it fails there are locksmith who can hook up their keypad to it and open the door.

The only instance that this would work would be if you had a keypad failure. Any issue with the lock has nothing to do with the wiring coming out of the safe, and hooking up a new keypad would do nothing.

If it is the end of the world and the lock fails since it is a RSC I can always beat a hole in it with a maul to get my stuff.

This is one of the benefits of a light safe. It's usually cheaper to beat them open than it is to drill them.

 

[Im283]

a1, the lock on my rsc is mechanical is it not? just the keypad is electronic?

I am confused now. Heck why would you care anyway, LOL.

its a granite safe, cost about 700

Would there be an advantage to having a dial installed instead of the keypad which works just fine now?

 

[a1abdj]

a1, the lock on my rsc is mechanical is it not? just the keypad is electronic?

In my use of the words here on the forum, a mechanical lock would refer to a manual dial lock. Anything with a keypad would be electronic.

Both types of locks have mechanical function of some sort. In a manual dial lock your hand and some springs provide the power behind the mechanical function. In an electronic lock, electricity provides that power through a motor or solenoid.

Would there be an advantage to having a dial installed instead of the keypad which works just fine now?

Only if you can't sleep at night because of it.

Both types of locks can break at any given time. The rates of these failures are higher on electronic locks, especially those that are older or with a high rate of use.

From a commercial standpoint it's a money thing. A locksmith charges $100 to come out and change a combination twice a year for 5 years due to turnover. That's $1,000.

They can change their own combination on an electronic lock. If it cost $500 to drill and replace a lock, and it lasts 5 years, they're way ahead.

 

[ShunZu]

A1, as usual, is dead-on.

When I had my Champion 60 cubic-footer delivered, the electronic was an option. I chose an old-fashioned S&G dial instead. Reason: My vendor recommended it. And while they were delivering and setting up the safe, he had a call from a client that had just had an electronic combination safe delivered -- and hadn't been able to get in to it for a day. And just as he was leaving, he had yet ANOTHER call from another client, also with the keypad.

I guess it's just a matter of Ford vs Chevy... Remington vs Winchester vs Savage -- and it all comes down to personal preference. But IMHO there's nothing wrong with a good S&G dial (as long as you haven't had too many Jack & Cokes one evening and forget your combination) Guilty as charged.

 

[ttinlv]

I thought that Granite warrants for such failure and provides open service no charge.

The only other thing to do is to use a fresh lithium battery every 5-7 years, or change the akaline battery every 9-12 months

 

[a1abdj]

I thought that Granite warrants for such failure and provides open service no charge.

Most gun safe manufacturers warranty the safe. The lock is not considered part of the safe, and is covered under a warranty provided by its manufacturer.

There are some minor exceptions to this rule, but usually after the safe is a year old, you're out of luck on an electronic lock failure.

 

[ttinlv]

The Granite Safe warranty is lifetime to original owner and does not appear to have exclusions on the lock.

 

[a1abdj]

I'm not saying that it's not possible for a safe manufacturer to pay for a lockout outside of the warranty. They do sometimes do this as a goodwill gesture. But:

This safe made by Granite Security Products, Inc. comes with a lifetime of warranty protection. It is warranted against manufacturing defects in materials and workmanship, as well as damage from burglary attack or fire for as long as the original purchaser owns the safe.

If the safe is defective or damaged to the extent that it can not be opened through normal means; Granite will have the safe opened by a skilled technician at Granite’s expense and pay to have the safe returned to the factory, and return freight to the owner.

Granite warranties the safe that they built. The lock is not part of the safe, nor is it something that they built. The lock is a secondary item produced by a third party.

If it's not in writing, it's not enforceable.

I'm not telling you this as an opinion of their warranty. We see this in real life. A lock on a safe is similar to brake pads on a car. It's a regular wear item, and is not covered beyond a very basic warranty.

 

[Im283]

Thanks for all the input a1. You are very helpful

i do not lose sleep over it so I suppose I will leave the keypad as is.

One thing I do though is once it is open I leave it open until I need to leave the house or another reason comes up to lock it down. No sense wearing the thing out unlocking it ten times a day to piddle around in the safe, lol. Once is enough.

 

[Hobie]

The S&G locks used on military safes and vault doors seem to be very reliable (dial type) being opened, in some applications, many times a day and combinations changed as often as monthly and this for many years.

 

[exar]

To the OP: I have that exact safe from Sam's Club with the electonic keypad. I love it. I just change the batteries when it warns me and it has worked great for years. Once you get used to it you can get it open in about .5 seconds. That's hard to do with a dial. I can also change my combination anytime. I wouldn't hesitate for a second to recommend this safe.

 

[ShunZu]

Recommended gun safe video for everyone with one is here if you haven't seen it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPUrqStiSTQ

THR discussion at length on safes is here:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=308536&highlight=safe+video

 

[refresh248]

I have to agree with Exar. I have this same Winchester RSC for about 2.5 years and have had no problems with the keypad lock. One time the battery died and I could not get into the RSC, but as soon as I put the new battery in I had no problems. I too agonized about the electronic lock before purchasing. I decided to take the chance and have been very happy. The other day I was in a gun shop that had a dial safe on display. I used the combo to open the safe and it took me several minutes and three attempts to open the thing. My electronic pad takes only seconds!!!! Just something to think about and good luck!

 

[LiquidTension]

I've had my RSC with electronic keypad for a little over a year now. One day I went to open it and the bottom half of the keypad was unresponsive. I took it apart and found that a connection was loose - clicked it back in place and everything was fine. I replaced the batteries while I was in there.

Had it been an emergency, I'd have been screwed. As it was, I was just late for work (duty gun was in the safe). On the other hand, when I had to get to a gun in a hurry a few weeks ago I was glad I didn't have a dial.

 

[heeler]

Well i went over to the guys house Sunday to look at his Winchester safe(RSC)...Whatever.
He contracted with a guy that moves safes for the box stores and had it put in one of the spare bedrooms that houses his hunting gear and other manly stuff.
He did bolt it down too.
However after thumping on the sidewalls of the safe there is no doubt about it it is a 12 gauge bodied device.
Really tinny sounding too me.
However for 6 bills plus tax and $125.00 delivery and bolt down he could have probably done worse.
His bird hunting shotguns probably have a total value pushing $7500.00
But he does live in a somewhat upscale neighborhood and the house has an alarm system and the neighborhood contracts with the county constables so they always have paid law enforcement so i have doubts the local thugs will come raping and pillaging around there.
So he probably doesnt need much more safe than what he's got.
I will say that electronic lock is one fast device for opening up the door.
I like it fundamentally but i dont trust it.
This summer when i buy my new safe it will have the S&G spinner for sure.
Thanks to all who posted.