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Confederate flag?

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Rebel Gunman HK, Dec 22, 2004.

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  1. Rebel Gunman HK

    Rebel Gunman HK member

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  2. PMDW

    PMDW Member

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    Probably the same reason some people don't like the Nazi Party flag.
     
  3. Arc-Lite

    Arc-Lite Member

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    I think it represents a very honorable group of men, who fought for their country....the problem I believe, comes when people highjack it, and turn it into some without honor...sadly what it stood for then, and now after the highjacking is much different. Arc-Lite
     
  4. lycanthrope

    lycanthrope Member

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    I think a lot of people feel it represents a racist sentiment.
     
  5. Rebel Gunman HK

    Rebel Gunman HK member

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    But what meaning is it that is offensive? Who is hijacking it?
     
  6. Valkman

    Valkman Member

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    Many people equate the Confederate Flag with racism. I do not, and I really hate it when racist groups use this flag in their cause. I equate that flag with one of the finest armies this country ever produced - if Lee's Army would've had the number of men and resources that the North did the outcome would've been very different.
     
  7. schizrade

    schizrade Guest

    Probably because one of the issues they fought the north over was keeping slavery. That is a cornerstone of the Civil War. The same goes for the Swastika. It has been used for 1000's of years but one nasty use has made it taboo. It is now tainted, just like the Confederate flag. Simple as that.
     
  8. iluvG.R.I.T.S

    iluvG.R.I.T.S Member

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    Alot of people associate it with slavery which is wrong.It represents the confederate states and was the battle flag of the southern states during the civil war.Which was fought for states rights and really didnt have much to do with slavery.Most of these kids that fly iit on their big ole trucks do it just to piss people off and have no clue what its really about.
     
  9. Roland of Gilead

    Roland of Gilead member

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    I love the south. Why do people insist on using Lee's battle flag and calling it the Confederate flag? The Stars and Bars is the Confederate flag, not Lee's battle flag.

    I think people are offended by Lee's battle flag because it was hijacked in the 60's by the new KKK.
    Around here the really old people tell you that after the Civil War, the Klan wasn't about racism, it was an order of "knights". They were about the only law other than the yankee occupiers. If a man stayed drunk and didn't take care of his family, the Klan would visit him one night, maybe rough him up, let it be known it was in his best interest to work and support his family.
    The Klan was hijacked by racists in the 1920's and 30's, and they in turn hijacked Lee's flag, and used it publicly a lot in the Civil Rights Era.

    Do you think that girl was wearing that dress to commerate the men who died in the civil war? Do you think she was wearing it to display "Southern Pride"? Do you think she was wearing it to thumb her nose at minorities who might take offense?

    I don't know her motivations, but I think no matter what they were, her removal from the prom was a bit extreme. I think if she lost some scholarship offers like I heard reported on the news, I'd like to know from where, 'cause I'll be sure never to donate to schools who support such a anti-free speech policy.
     
  10. Arc-Lite

    Arc-Lite Member

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    rebel..I do not find it offensive...because I see it as it was ment to be...ANYONE who miss uses it, for their personal beliefs, is highjacking it. I respect it, because it stood for the men of OUR country, doing what THEY believed. Arc-Lite
     
  11. mbs357

    mbs357 Member

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    The swastika is a religious symbol in Asia, it's just tainted by the Nazis.
    I consider the Confederate Flag a symbol of the south, my home, and the part of the country I love the most. In a way, you can kinda understand the south's position in the Civil War. The slaves were their major source of income. Agreed that slavery in America was the worst form of slavery every conceived and should have been destoyed sooner than it was and that the southerners on their plantations should've gotten off their lazy rears and picked their own cotton, but you can see where they're coming from. So to me, the Confederate Flag represents detirmination to fight for our way of life...I am saddened that that way of life was a living through slavery...I am also insulted that they fought for their freedom to use slaves...
     
  12. Rebel Gunman HK

    Rebel Gunman HK member

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    Thanks for the posts. I had no idea that the KKK used the flag as theirs. So I take it that it is mostly black people who have a problem with the flag being used based on the Klan's involvement and not the Confederate states that it originally represented?

    I just so happen to have bought a shirt a few years ago that had a confederate flag with a neat skull on it that said "Rebel" on it. I bought it cause I'm rebellious and I thought it looked cool. I bought it on a Army base in the PX in Virginia when I was assigned there. Never even knew I was wearing something over the years that might of made me a target.....

    Anyhoo thanks for the education!
     
  13. Rebel Gunman HK

    Rebel Gunman HK member

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    Oh yea. What is the difference between Lee's battle flag and the Confederate flag? Anyone have pics?
     
  14. Arc-Lite

    Arc-Lite Member

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    It is the same with the air head gang bangers...wear the wrong color T shirt and it could get you killed...same in Jamaica, one color, one party, the other color, the other party....and they kill each other during elections. Even small reptiles are smarter then this !!! Highjack a flag, highjack a color... geeeezzzzz give me a break !!! Arc-Lite
     
  15. Sleeping Dog

    Sleeping Dog Member

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    Hey Rebel,

    Heck yes, that Stars-n-Bars T-shirt will make you a target. But so will a Stars-n-Stripes T in some 'hoods.

    Wanna feel safe? Get a sky-blue United Nations flag bandana to wrap your skull in. Nobody'll dare mess with you then. :rolleyes: (Safety tip: Don't forget to take it off as you enter the saloon) :)

    Anyway, besides the association with the Klan, some folks associate the Stars-n-Bars with the Confederacy, and associate the Confederacy with slavery, and there might have been a little racism wrapped up in the slave business. So it's easy to see why some may not like that flag. Even though most southerners who fought were not slave-owners.


    Regards. (And I was just kidding about the UN Flag. Really. Don't wrap one around your head)
     
  16. Tory

    Tory member

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    Another "moonlight and magnolias" myth:

    "Around here the really old people tell you that after the Civil War, the Klan wasn't about racism, it was an order of "knights". They were about the only law other than the yankee occupiers. If a man stayed drunk and didn't take care of his family, the Klan would visit him one night, maybe rough him up, let it be known it was in his best interest to work and support his family."

    What insultingly inane drivel.

    The Ku Klux Klan was formed by hardcore, unrepentant Confederates, notably the brilliant cavalryman Nathan Bedford Forrest, to suppress blacks from exercising their newly-acquired rights, primarily voting. It used terror in all forms, from dressing as ghosts (hence the "sheet" uniform) to scare the superstitious ex-slaves to rape, beatings and lynchings.

    These allegedly non-racist "knights" grew so violent that even their most prominent proponent, Forrest, quit the organization in disgust. It faded until D.W. Griffith's racist film, "Birth of a Nation," which portrayed blacks as lecherous beasts slavering for white girls to rape, came out. It legitimized the Klan, which grew rapidly in the '20's and was responsible for most of the beatings, lynchings and murders of the Civil Rights era of the '60's.

    For those who actually want a clue, look into the murder of Violet Iuzzo (run off the road by Klansmen for driving civil rights workers), Goodman, Schwerner and Chaney (civil rights workers released to the Klan by the local PD; beaten, killed and buried in a coffer dam, made into the film "Mississippi Burning"), and the bombings in Birmingham, Alabama (6 little girls killed in just ONE church bombing).

    That said, if a girl wants to wear a Confederate flag, the First Amendment should protect her. Period.

    I fly the Stars & Bars; i.e., the First Pattern CSA flag, on the birthdays of R.E. Lee, T.J. Jackson and Jefferson Davis. I have no more use for PC fascists than I do for Klan apologists! :barf:
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2004
  17. DRZinn

    DRZinn Member

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    Unfortunately, the meanings of things change, and not always to what the original users intended. Case in point: the swastika, which was originally a symbol of the sun. Like it or not, what the swastika means now is Nazism. Same thing with that flag. What it meant was states' rights. What it means now, like it or not, is racism. Does that mean everyone who flies it, wears it, or puts it on their truck bumper is a racist? Of course not, but the meaning is what it becomes.

    To look at it another way, we and the white supremacists have one thing in common: the belief in states' rights. What it means to them is the right to own slaves. What it means to us is much more complex, and has a lot to do with individual rights, the polar opposite of the white supremacists' goal. But if you talk to a KKK Grand Wizard (or whatever they call themselves) and mention states' rights, it means slavery.
     
  18. mountaindrew

    mountaindrew Member

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    What I never hear mentioned in these debates is the fact that beyond being about slavery, it is a symbol of rebelion. To some thats not a good thing. It is a symbol of the enemy who instigated one of the bloodiest and horrible wars ever fought by the United States. It is the same as flying a Nazi swatstica in support of what the nazis stood for.

    The confederacy was an enemy of the United States. The war they insisted upon fighting caused the death of many of our ancestors, on both sides.

    The fact that they fought to protect a corrupt and evil way of life only make the symbolism that much more repugnant.
     
  19. Roland of Gilead

    Roland of Gilead member

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    QUOTE:

    For those who actually want a clue, look into the murder of Violet Iuzzo (run
    off the road by Klansmen for driving civil rights workers), Goodman, Schwerner and Chaney (civil rights workers released to the Klan by the local PD; beaten, killed and buried in a coffer dam, made into the film "Mississippi Burning"), and the bombings in Birmingham, Alabama (6 little girls killed in just ONE church bombing).


    How interesting you rebuke my comments about the original 1860's Klan, who's original founder quit when it became too racist (isn't that what I said) by citing events inthe 50s and 60s, which I specifically said was the new,unapoligetic, nothing but white supremacist Klan who ruined the Confederate Flag for everyone by waving Lee's battle flag in their faces while threatening black students.
    Anyway, who would I believe, people who were told by their parents, who actually lived here and saw it or someone who actually lived thru and saw Mississippi Burning?:rolleyes:

    Was it the Klan that lynched those young, black men in NYC (omitted from the film Gangs of New York 'cause everyone knows its only Southerners who are racist).

    BTW, could you show me one, single, repentant Confederate? I have lived in AL or TN my whole life, traveled the whole country and some far flung parts of the world, and I have never encountered such a person.
     
  20. Hkmp5sd

    Hkmp5sd Member

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    Not trying to sidetrack this thread, but you really need to study the "Civil War" if you believe that. In addition, look at how the federal government operated before and after the war. The war was about states rights.

    The South wanted to leave the union, not take over the entire country. Many historians and Constitutional scholars believe they were justified in doing so under the Constitution as it existed at that time. It was the North that invaded the South.
     
  21. iluvG.R.I.T.S

    iluvG.R.I.T.S Member

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    The whole reason the south wanted to leave the union and did had nothing to do with slavery.Lincoln him self said "I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the states where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so." .The South left over trade and tarrifs that the north was imposing. This website explains it very simply http://www.scvcamp469-nbf.com/Q&A/civil_war_wasn.htm
     
  22. Arc-Lite

    Arc-Lite Member

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    ...and so it goes...the highjackers highjacking the highjackers... don't you just love it !!! if they would have all worn plaid shirts...would plaid shirts be racist?? Arc-Lite
     
  23. lycanthrope

    lycanthrope Member

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    Only to the Irish maybe......
     
  24. joab

    joab Member

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    Roland of Gilead
    Take it from someone whos family roots goes back to the inception of the Klan. And someone who's father left Alabama trying to hide from this legacy. And who's paternal grandfather and great grandfathers were Exalted Cyclops in the Klan
    Tory is right.

    The difference between me and your "old folks" is that I am truly embarassed by the association and have no reason to rationalize my family's involement.
    Fell a little short here too.
    The Stars and Bars was the first falg of the Confederacy. In the final version the St Andrews Cross battle flag was incorporated on a field of white with a braoad red verticle bar
    It's the Confederate Naval Jack that is used nowadays not the Army of Northern Va's
     
  25. joab

    joab Member

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