Conflicting info on max load for W748

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Joshboyfutre

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Ive seen discrepancies before but this just ridiculous. Win. lists max load of 26g.
Hodgdon-26g max
Hornady-28.9 "
Sierra-27.5 " for AR & 26.5 " for bolt
Speer-28.0 "

I'm probably gonna go 23-26 and maybe have 26.5 if the 26.0 looks ok.


 
With 55 gr. bullets in .223 and Win 748, my experience in AR's and one bolt rifle is that Win 748 higher than 26.5 grains is excessive in hot summer temperatures or when a round sits in a hot chamber and soaks up the heat, with any case or primer. I've loaded higher and got some scary pressure signs in my bolt action rifle. I like Win 748 for .223 but now much prefer H335. In my rifles 26.4 grains of Win 748 is my preferred load with 55 gr. bullets and doesn't show any issues in any conditions. Don't understand these high powder charges as I guarantee that you will run into pressure issues going higher than 26.5. A start charge of 23 grains is a very mild weak load.
 
I would start low and work up I have had good results with 748 in my AR but I never loaded it hot , I agree if you push max loads with 748 you may have issues on a hot summer day ,
748 can be temp sensitive
 
Yeah that's what I figured I appreciate your input. I usually go for h335 or cfe223 but neither were in stock so I want to head and figured I would try the W748. I like to have a few loads for each rifle anyway
 
For illustrative purposes only, here is what I got using my particular lot of WW748/CCI 450 primers/LC 92 cases/WW 55 FMJ-BT bullets. Rifle was an IMI Galil, 16" barrel, with a 5.56 chamber: Av velocity was 3005 fps with 27.5 grains of WW748.

Ambient temp I believe was high 70's/low 80's. Propellant was from 1993, shot in 1994 using then current data, and no issues were experienced.

I would not go as low as you state; 24.5, even 25.5 would be it for me if using a 55 grain jacket bullet. Good luck.
 
Ive seen discrepancies before but this just ridiculous. Win. lists max load of 26g.
Hodgdon-26g max
Hornady-28.9 "
Sierra-27.5 " for AR & 26.5 " for bolt
Speer-28.0 "

I'm probably gonna go 23-26 and maybe have 26.5 if the 26.0 looks ok.

That is the first time I have ever seen Hornady have the hottest data! More typically, their max is very conservative.

Russellc
 
I know right!? Suprised me too. I'm gonna go test some loads tomorrow. Gonna shoot loads from 23.0-26.5 out of a Savage Axis II (22" barrel with 1:9 twist). 23 seems pretty low but its what is listed as min charge so I figure it will at least be safe, even if it is anemic. Once I get the bolt rifle load worked out I'm gonna develop one for my AR. From what Ive been reading online W748 is somewhat under appreciated. I'll post my results if I can remember to lol
 
The information isn't conflicting, you simply aren't comparing apples to apples. It's obvious that either you aren't paying attention to the details or you don't believe that the differences are enough to create a change in data, either way you're not correct. All of these loads are using different barrel lengths, cartridge overall lengths, units of pressure, and most likely different powder lot numbers and all of these things will create different results. Use the manual that the bullet manufacturer sells. Hodgdon doesn't make bullets so I never really trust their data, and as I show below, they have many errors in their information (two different bullet weights fired from two different barrel lengths using the same powder charge wont produce the same velocity). Everybody complains that Hornady usually shows less powder than the other manufacturers and they assume that that means that Hornady isn't accurate but the truth is that Hornady bullets are usually shaped in such a way as to produce more pressure than a similar bullet from another manufacturer so Hornady will recommend less powder so as to not exceed SAAMI max pressure recommendations with their specific bullet.

Notice the differences between each of the loads you listed:

Hodgdon-26g max - They show the same max powder charge for a 50gr Speer SP and a 53gr Sierra HP (26gr) with the same velocity and CUP value. They list a different overall length for these two bullets, 2.210" for the Speer bullet and 2.200" for the Sierra bullet. They also list the same barrel length for both bullets, 24", with a muzzle velocity of 3200 fps for both.

Hornady-28.9 " - I'm assuming that you are referring to the 53gr HP Match bullet which Hornady says will produce 3400 fps with a cartridge length of 2.230" out of a 26" barrel.

Sierra-27.5 " for AR & 26.5 " for bolt - Sierra does a better job than Hodgdon identifying the differences between the results of these two loads. The indicate that the AR uses 53gr bullet over 27.5gr with a 2.250" cartridge length out of a 20" barrel to get 3100 fps, while the bolt rifle uses the same bullet with the same cartridge length but 26.5gr produces 3200 fps our of a 24" barrel.

Speer-28.0 " - I don't have a Speer manual so I can't really guess at which bullet you are referring to and I can't identify the specifics about the load but I'd make a guess that, just like the other loads listed above, there will be differences in barrel length, cartridge length, muzzle velocities, or other data.

The point is that the differences exist because the loads are different and whomever wrote the manual used different standards and processes for writing their manual. As I said, the safest way to choose a manual is to pick the bullet and use that manufacturer's book.
 
Joshboyfutre wrote:
Ive seen discrepancies before but this just ridiculous. Win. lists max load of 26g.
Hodgdon-26g max
Hornady-28.9 "
Sierra-27.5 " for AR & 26.5 " for bolt
Speer-28.0 "

What bullet weight are you shooting?

Which edition of each of these manuals did you get your data?

The reason I ask is that Hornady #8 lists 28.9 grains of WW748 for 52/53 grain bullets, but lists the maximum for 50 grain bullets as 28.3 and for 55 grain the maximum is 26.4. That 28.9 seems anomalous.

I load .223 with Hornady 60 grain bullets using either IMR-4198, IMR-3031 or WW748 based on data that I got from Hornady #4. For WW748, I use a charge of 25.0 grains which gets me right at 2,900 fps per my chronograph with good accuracy at 100 yards and acceptable accuracy at 200.
 
I'm aware that they are using different barrels and all that. I guess I'm stupid and unaware because I think that the difference between 26.0 and 28.9 is an awful lot for just being from a different rifle. In the end all of these numbers are basically suggestions so you would think that there would be a standard suggestion is what I was saying, I guess it's easily misinterpreted if someone isn't paying attention LOL
 
I'm shooting 52g smk. I dont have an actual manual I have a little booklet for .223. It basically has all the 223 info from each manual copied. Pretty handy if u ask me. It doesn't say exactly which manual # for hornady but its right out pf the book and they r the same numbers you listed for 52/53g
 
From what Ive been reading online W748 is somewhat under appreciated.
748BR Ball Rifle propellant introduced in 1968 and replaced by 748 in 1973.
w748 is a old powder and was very popular at one time but as the years have gone by many new powders have came out and w748 is not as popular as it once was
 
Ball powders have never been the norm in best accuracy with rifle bullets. Best results happen with extruded (stick) powders. Even if stick powder charges have a tiny spread in charge weight and ball powder has zero.
 
No kidding huh? For some reason I was under the impression that ball was better for smaller cartridges like the .223. Maybe It's because folks hear about the military using it and think its the best?... and not the lowest bidder? Lol. Thanks for the tip! Just curious what powder would u use for a 22" 1:9 twist?
 
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