Confused about case length, bullet seating

[raindog]

I bought a bag of Winchester-brand .308 brass. This is virgin, unfired, unprimed brass (Winchester #WSC308WU). I measured the case length and the case length consistently come out to 2.004 to 2.0075. That's straight out of the bag.

The specs call for 2.015 case length. Is there something I'm missing? I thought brass lengthened and needed to be trimmed with shooting...but I'm not sure how I should "grow" this brass.

Or perhaps I was misunderstanding. I was planning to just prime, load, and seat these guys. Do I need to do a full-case sizing die first?

I assume that when I'm done and the bullet is seated, the OAL should match what is listed for this particular caliber/bullet combo (in my case, 168gr Sierra HPBT, 2.775"). My finished rounds are coming out short (around 2.57" for OAL), so I think I'm seating the bullet too deeply. Right? Though if the cases start short...

 

[ants]

A little clarification

I think you need a book or two. The good ones answer all these questions.

Standard industry maximum dimensions are not to be construed as 'spec'.
2.015" is the longest brass length that will safety operate in a chamber meeting or exceeding standard dimensions. You can always be shorter, it's not safe to go longer.

• Yes, it will eventually grow. Measure it, log it in a log book, and monitor it until it's close to 2.015". Then trim down to your trim-to length.
• Personally, I try brand new empty brass in the chamber first. If it doesn't slide into the chamber and slide back out, I full-length resize it.
• The max OAL is a maximum OAL. You can always be shorter, never load longer.

And OAL is independent of case length, unless your bullet is really really short.

I truly encourage getting some books, friend.

 

[raindog]

That makes sense - trim-to length is 2.005", so these are at trim-to length. Thanks.

How critical is OAL? I followed the instructions for my Lee Challenger press/Lee Dies. They say seat the die until it touches the shellholder, then a further 1/4 turn. When I do that, I consistently get 2.64" to 2.67". OAL is 2.775" for this caliber/bullet combo.

 

[Deavis]

How critical is OAL?

It is important for a variety of reasons, all of which are given in most quality manuals. Not being rude, go read your manual a few times. Your bullet seating depth is independent, for the most part, of case length because the die is being positioned for its operation relative to the bullet rather than the brass. For instance, you can leave your seater (not talking about combined with crimp) unchanged between a 45ACP case and a 460Rowland case and get the same seating depth with the same bullet even thought the Rowland is longer. The same does not apply to your flare, so remember that before you shuttle on up

 

[50 Shooter]

You should get on ebay and buy the reloading book called "the ABC's of reloading". It will explain alot of your questions, you should do alot of reading before starting out reloading.

Your OAL can be shorter, if you run longer then you run the chance of having your bullets hit the rifling. If seated longer you also run into keeping them seated straight in the case or not having enough bullet to get a crimp on. These are just a few issues and seating the bullets to deep in the case can make case pressures rise also.

If you know someone that reloads already you can ask them to give some pointers or reload with them until you feel more comfortable reloading on your own.

 

[Deavis]

Maybe the powder companies are just holding onto the quaint notion that within the small population of reloaders there are only honest people. If only that were the case. Tamper evident caps would be nice but since there is a limit on the amount of powder out for display, perhaps the manufacturers just assume that the retailers will have it in a place where tampering cannot occur. Interesting trade-off.

 

[raindog]

Thanks for the advice.

Believe it or not, I've read The ABCs of Reloading and it is not 100% clear on these questions. I just reread it and with the comments above, I see that it says "never exceed" in regard to OAL. The Lyman manual unfortunately lists the data without going field-by-field what they mean.

I thought it was better to ask questions than make assumptions, considering we're talking about a controlled explosion a few inches from my head ;-)

 

[qajaq59]

Rain Dog, where do you live? Maybe one of us lives nearby and could help you out? But definitely buy a book because you're going to need it anyway.

 

[rcmodel]

They say seat the die until it touches the shellholder, then a further 1/4 turn

Thats for the sizing die only.

If you adjust the seating die like that you will crimp the bullet in place to a wasp-waste coke bottle shape of about .270 caliber!!!!
And buckle the shoulder of the case.

Do this:
*Put a sized case in the shell holder and run the ram up.
*Screw the seating die down until you feel the dies crimp shoulder contact the case mouth.
*Back the die back out a 1/4 - 1/2 turn and lock the lock-ring.
*Now, adjust the bullet seating depth with the seating stem by screwing in in and out.

Don't change the seating die itself again unless you want to crimp the bullet in place with it.
It has nothing to do with adjusting seating depth or OAL.

rc

 

[RVenick]

Go here http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1258890717.158=/html/HelpVideos/video.html Scroll down to die adjustment on single station presses and watch the video.

 

[243ackley]

May I also add that the overal length of the round can, for accuracis sake be made longer. However you will need to keep 7mm of shank in the neck of the case to give a decent amount of neck tension. Get one of your sized, trimmed and empty cases and seat a bullet in very long. Colour your bullet in with a marker pen and then close the bolt. Gentley extract the case and examine the bullet for marks in the ink where it has touched the rifling. Continue to adjust your seating die down quarter of a turn at a time until you no longer get the marks from the rifling in the ink. Then turn it another half turn and lock up your dies. This will give you a pretty good o a l without a long jump up to the lands. Then work your load up by the normal methods.

I hope this helps