Confused about Terry Schiavo

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Kate Adamson is a woman who was in a situation similar to Terri's several years ago. In fact, her doctors had decided that she had no hope of recovery and that her feeding tube should be removed. For 8 days she was starved, and descibes it as "one of the most painful experiences you can imagine." Luckily her husband fought for her and she recovered with therapy and rehabilitation.

Another point that I haven't seen mentioned above: Terri's husband is so adamant that she not receive any nourishment by mouth that he has denied requests by her family that she be allowed to recieve Holy Communion before she dies. (She and her family are Catholic) This is perhaps Mr. Sciavo's most spiteful act to date.

There's more interesting information about her diagnosis and the agenda of the court appointed doctors in this article.
 
For the people who constantly are saying "starving to death in a painful horrible end" etc. etc. please read this:

Dr. Sean Morrison, a professor of geriatric and internal medicine at Mt. Sinai School of Medicine in New York, said that while coma patients recover, patients in a persistent vegetative state do not.

He also said it was wrong to characterize Schiavo's death as starvation.

"What happens is she loses fluid from her body, she enters a peaceful coma and she gradually passes away, very gently and very peacefully," he said.


Enough with the conspiracy theories and let the woman go in peace.
 
There's a big difference between a stroke and lack of oxygen turning your brain into jelly. The first one you can sometimes recover from. The second one you can't. There is no brain there to recover with.

Terry's body can't chew. How do you expect it to take Communion? She has been given Last Rites.

Hopefully the body will shut itself down quickly and put an end to this.
 
He also said it was wrong to characterize Schiavo's death as starvation.
"What happens is she loses fluid from her body, she enters a peaceful coma and she gradually passes away, very gently and very peacefully," he said.
Click to expand...

If this is true, why do we prosocute someone who's dog died because he forgot to feed and water it? Does it make it OK because we give her meds to ease the pain? I think the doc is playing word games.
 
Dbl0Kevin, I saw the interview with that doctor also, and disagree with his opinion. I am a physician myself, and what he is saying is just his personal opinion. He is biased in favor of letting her die, and wants people to think cutting off her feedings will not cause her pain.

No one knows for sure what people in PVS feel. It is thought they can feel pain though.

Do you think you would feel peaceful and happy if you had nothing to eat or drink for a week? I don't think it would be comfortable. For someone such as this patient, it may look peaceful, because she can't express anything, but that doesn't mean she is peaceful on the inside.

Now all that said, I doubt lying in bed unable to do anything is much fun either. I would not want to live like she is living. I would want my tube pulled and left alone to die. But I don't think white-washing starvation and dehydration as a peaceful way to die is a fair assessment on the part of that very biased physician you reference. She is going to feel terrible until she drifts off into a coma and finally dies.
 
Lone_gunman: Is she going to "feel terrible" if her cerebral cortex is largely gone, and it is only the brain-stem functioning?

Mind you, I am not arguing here; I am asking for a professional opinion.
 
This is a really tough situation. After doing some thought, I can surely say that if I were in a vegetative state, with no hope of recovery, I would rather be put down than to lie in a hospital bed for years being an emotional and financial drain on my family. Minimal nervous system response to stimuli, while technically indicating life, is not being alive. I must say, to second several opinions here, that this is not a matter for the courts, and that a living will is of paramount importance
 
Someone a long ways back asked a question about what the outcome should someone actively end Schiavo's life rather than passively, through removal of the feeding tube. That's a fascinating question. Chances are the person would be tried and convicted of murder, possibly even sentenced to death. This is the logic of a theocracy, which is what we are becoming when issues like this are legislated according to religious beliefs.
 
Wow.

If there were any legal and humane way to allow Mrs.Schiavo's body to shut down, of course her husband (regardless of him starting another family) would support that rather than this barbaric, agonizing (to those who have to observe it, probably not to Mrs. Schiavo), and pointless dehydration and starvation exercise.

Letting Mrs. Schiavo's body dehydrate and eventually shut down is barbaric and superstitious as opposed to a humane "killing" (whether she's alive is debatable), but it's better than the alternative. She has had 15 years to recover to the point where there's some indication that she's aware. That hasn't happened. The only legal alternative -- leaving her in a bed with a feeding tube for the rest of her days, maybe trying some rehabilitation that stands virtually no chance of working -- is no alternative. It is unthinkable.

Maybe if someone suggested a brain transplant from someone who wasn't using theirs... some politician, for instance, or perhaps that DEA agent with the itchy trigger finger... that could be an option.

Sure, miracles happen, and it's possible that her brain may begin reconstituting itself. It's also possible that eventually we'll have the technology to bring people back to life. Should we then dunk everyone in LN2 when they die and refuse any personal or guardians' requests for cremation on the grounds that the recently deceased patient's affliction (death) is potentially reversible? Give me a break!

Grampster, if you want parents to have the right to determine treatment for a married child, I presume that's possible... all you have to do is change state law. +1 for your amusing comment about marital union and this being, in effect, a suicide. :)
 
Another point that I haven't seen mentioned above: Terri's husband is so adamant that she not receive any nourishment by mouth that he has denied requests by her family that she be allowed to recieve Holy Communion before she dies. (She and her family are Catholic) This is perhaps Mr. Sciavo's most spiteful act to date.
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Sciavo's swallowing reflex is partly damaged - attempting to feed her any solids or liquids without the feeding tube risks aspiration of those solids and subsequent asphyxiation, a far more distressing death for anyone watching. Terri herself wouldn't mind - she's been dead for several years now - but I can imagine it would distress her family to watch her corpse spasming as a result of the asphyxiation.

No one knows for sure what people in PVS feel. It is thought they can feel pain though.
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If you mean that there's a response to pain stimuli, yes. If you mean they can feel pain, no - there's no higher brain center left to feel anything, it's necrotised compeletely down to the corpus collosum in Terri's case. She simply has no more cortex left, it's gone.

As to the "medical experts" who're saying she might recover, read this. Just make sure you have your ulcer medication handy as learning what's actually going on there will seriously tick you off.
 
OK FWIW

1. She isnt gonna recover, thats the consensus of expert medical opinion thats been tested in court.

2. Every pro and con has been tested over and over and over in Court. Sad as it is, the parents have lost.

3. You want a different result? Then urge your lawmakers to pass a law setting forth that nobody gets the plug pulled unless:

a. Their wishes to have the plug pulled are clearly and expressly set forth in writing and

b. Such wishes shall only be honored if expert medical evidence finds PVS AND

c. No relative to the X degree of consanguintiy is willing to care, at their own exp4ense, for the patient

WildsolvesthewholeprobinthefutureAlaska

PS update your living wills boys and girls
 
It looks like the diagnosis that her cortex has been almost completely replaced by cerebral spinal fluid was made via CAT scan, so it doesn't matter that she hasn't had an MRI.

If that diagnosis is correct, she is no more alive than a tomato plant.

It would be nice if a more humane option existed, but it obviously doesn't...at least not legally.

After looking at both sides of this for the last day or so, it would seem that her parents are refusing to face reality. Their daughter died a long time ago.

- Gabe
 
Gabe, you summed the whole thing up in 5 sentences. You should be in the Reader's Digest Condensed Book Hall of Fame. ;)
 
First of all Terri has NEVER had an MRI. The family has begged for her to have one and her "husband" refuses. She was originally diagnosed by a "doctor" that makes his living going around the country testifying in these types of cases and diagnosing people with PVS and then advocating that they starve to death. He is a LONG time advocate of euthanasia and assisted suicide. That's his kick. He gets paid as an expert witness in trials when someone is wanting to kill a family member. They bring in George Felos (husbands lawyer) who also is an outspoken longtime proponent of assisted suicide and euthanasia and he calls his partner, Dr. PVS. He examined her for 45 minutes...TOTAL. No other neurologists have been allowed to examine her. Judge Greer has also refused to allow videotapes of her in court and he has forbid any pictures or video of Terri being released to the public for the last 2 years. If she has PVS and is nothing but a "Bag of Cells" doing nothing more than an amoeba, then what's the big deal with having a video of her being shown?
As for the case being gone over dozens of time in court, that isn't true either. I am not a lawyer, but Judge Greer was the original "finder of fact" and whatever he found is the way it is. The subsequent appeals do not address any of the things that were found in the Greer court. The appeals courts WILL NOT go back and undo what the "original finder of fact" has determined. So no matter how wrong or bad it is the appelate courts only deal with mistakes of the law, not mistakes of fact.
Her so call husband testified in the malpractice case that he needed the 20 million because Terri could live another 40 years and that he was going to spend the rest of his life taking care of her. He was going to do everything possible to make her better. No one knew but at that time he was across town banging some skank and starting a family with her. No mention was ever made about her not wanting to live that way, it was never even uttered. As a matter of fact it never crossed the lips of the "husband." Suddenly after he was awarded 2.25 million he signed a "do not resusitate" order 3 months later, removed all therapy and external stimuli, refused to let her have antibiotics for simple infections and even refused to let her teeth be brushed to the point that she has had 5 teeth rot out. She hadn't had her teeth brushed for 9 years.
So everyone that thinks her hubby has been waging this struggle since it happened and that he wants to make sure that her wishes are carried out, remember that "her wishes" to die were never even made public or mentioned to ANYONE until 3 months after he was awarded the malpractice money.
You still think he has his wifes best interest at heart?

Nala
 
I am not a lawyer, but Judge Greer was the original "finder of fact" and whatever he found is the way it is
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yep thats right. You wrent there, I wasnt there, but Judge Greer was and he has cosnsitently held the the way he has...

Regardless, the tragedy here is the way this whole scenario is being used for politcal gain and politcal posturing.

WildevensomehereAlaska
 
BTW, the tapes of Terri responding to stimuli are sketchy at best. I'd consider them creative editing as opposed to actual evidence.

Wave a balloon in her face enough times and eventually you'll do it when her CNS makes her head move. Record that and say "look, she followed the balloon. she's teh alive!"

Keep her doped on morphine, pull the tube and let her go.

As a semi-related note, what would folks here think about legislation that required a form to be filled out when a person hits 18 yoa. This form would be a simple document that would lay out exactly what was to be done should thi happen to you. The forms would be kept on file with state govt. and ONLY be accessible to doctors and yourself. You also have the right to change your mind at any point.

Oh, lets legalize euthenasia. If a person has the right to life, shouldn't they also have the right to end said life?
 
re living wills and health care directives

Egads, don't file them with the government.

Or, rather, here in MN, you have the health care directive prepared by the lawyer. Your signature is notarized on multiple copies. Keep one with him, if he's active in your life. Let him file them as needed.

File the other one with your doctor's office, the clinic's office, the hospital.
Bring a new fresh copy each time you go in for a procedure.

Review that with the relevant professionals giving you care / performing surgery, whatever, that day. Eyeball to eyeball-sedated or not.

Do it in front of witnesses. And make sure your spokesperson is available.
When I had my prostatectomy done, two close friends were at the hospital--but my daughter was tied up with classes. Her cell phone was turned on, however, and we had rehearsed this.

To do this, however, you had better be very certain you are comfortable with your decisions in these matters, and that your trust in your support is absolute.

It's a cinch that if things go sour, you ain't gonna get to mediate the solution.
 
People get all worked up in a lather when the press zeroes in on an issue. The facts are that these decisions are made every day. Some people can't handle the truth, but it isn't their business. It is a mistake to try to make this a moral issue. The real test will be whether existing conjugal rights of the husband will be upheld. With all due respect to the people involved in this case, conjugal rights are the only thing that keeps meddling in-laws at bay. As I understand it, legally the decision is the husbands to make, and that has been repeatedly established in court.

Congressional intervention is beyond outrageous. It is an ominous sign of how they might overreach in the future on any issue, especially moral judgments. Take note of how they misuse the intent of the law to find grounds for their action. If they don't have jurisdiction, they fabricate it. Reminds me of the commerce clause. What's next?
 
what is the quality of life with a feeding tube?

no thanks, if it were me in that condition no feeding tube. wife and I are making arrangements for living will this week.
 
You have on one hand a husband who cares about his wife so much that he runs out and gets a girlfriend, with whom he has multiple children. I mean what other reason would he have to refuse to divorce her, other than his love for her (settlement money).

I find it ironic that the very same crowd who constantly disparages our legal system and the "dreaded STATE" are so quick to rely on these "evil" institutions to support their own agenda.

"But golly, a judge has ruled against Terry Schiavo and we all know that a judge's decision has to be respected as inviolable. We should all bow down to what the STATE has to say on this matter, afterall the STATE never would make a wrong decision when it comes to our rights."

Whatever happened to basic human rights? I guess the right to own an AR is sacrosanct, but the right to live is not.
 
I guess the right to own an AR is sacrosanct, but the right to live is not.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, I don't believe my support of euthanasia or assisted suicide is relevant in this case.
 
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