Confused!!

[BP Hunter]

OK. I am getting into reloading. I am still waiting for my Lee Hand Prerss Kit, .45 ACP carbide die set from cabelas. At home now I have the Unique powder, .45 ACp casings, primers and .45 230gr Hornady XTP.

I have a Lee dipper and Lee Powder measure scale. I first tested out IMR 4759 with the dipper and weighed them for accuracy with the scale. It was accurate. I then dipped the Alliant Unique powder firstly with 0.7 dipper hoping to read 6.4 grains. The scale didn't even budge. Hmmm, I cheked the scale and its components and even zeroed it in empty. I tried again...nothing, not a movement on the scale. I tried the other dippers and dialed in the corresponding weights...still no change in the scale. I then tried my IMR-4759 and was accurate as ever. Mind you, I am not new to using this scale. I used to hunt with the Savage 10ML muzzleloader ahd having weighing my smokeless loads for many years.

I am not sure what to do. Was the wrong powder placed in the wrong jar during packaging? Did they update a new Lee dipper chart? Are there other types of Alliant Unique powders? I am afraid to use this powder.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[ants]

If you bought the powder new, it is probably good. No need to worry. That's an excellent powder for 45acp. Not to worry.

The scale only moves when the object being weighed is very close to the setting on the scale. If it's a couple grains off, the scale won't move.

And the Lee chart is notorious for being WAY off. That's the value of using the scale to verify the scoop. You figure out the true weight of each scoop for your chosen powder and write it down. Then ignore the chart.

Sounds like you're almost ready to go. Best of luck, friend. Take it easy, go slowly, make sure you understand every step. You'll do fine.

 

[243winxb]

Did they update a new Lee dipper chart?

There are 2 different dipper set if i remember correctly. Each would have there own chart. http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/Dippers.pdf Your dippers should be rated in CC for the chat. The dippers are not exact, go by what the scale is saying.

Lee Powder Measure Kit

This kit consists of 15 dippers. Like our other powder measuring products, these are rated in CCs. The dippers are very accurate and through the use of a consistent technique, can be counted on to deliver charges that don't vary over a tenth of a grain.

With the dipper in hand, push it backwards into a powder reservoir such as a cup and let the powder fall into it from the top. Removing the dipper from the cup should yield a heaping dipper full of powder. With a business card, scrape off the excess so the measure is level.

With many new powders, we have found it difficult to keep a slide card updated. We do however attempt to keep the latest powders along with their respective capacities for the dippers on our website. http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/VMD'S.pdf. Scroll down and click on Powder VMDs.

 

[243winxb]

Here is a thread http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?p=435127

 

[BP Hunter]

Thanks for your help. I went to the shop where I bought the Unique powder. We measured the .7cc dipper which was supposed to haved weighed 6.4 grains, according to the Lee dipper chart. The actual weight using the electronic scale and actually verifying it with the Lee powder scale read only 5 gr.

I will just use the powder scale for measurment. i will not use the diipers.

 

[ironhat]

There are two schools of thought in our fraternity of pill pushers (OK, that was lame!). One is weight and the other is volume and one does not necessarily match the other in terms of speed. If you choose to use volume stick with it and don't switch ack and forth with that load. Personally, I see weight as the more accurate means of working up a load. You couldn't have enough dippers to come up with .5gr of additional powder. You know what I'm sayin'. :banghead:

 

[Sport45]

You couldn't have enough dippers to come up with .5gr of additional powder.

Sez who? There are many dippers available and folks even make their own custom size dippers to fine tune a particular load.

That said, I set my automatic dipper by weight and then only check the weight every 25-50 rounds when loading for pistol and every 5 or so for rifle.

 

[JimKirk]

Weigh the dipper and the powder at the same time, then weigh the dipper alone.

Dipper-powder weight minus the dipper weight = powder weight.

This gives the scale enough mass to weigh, some scales don't do very light charges well.

Jimmy K

 

[BP Hunter]

Weigh the dipper and the powder at the same time, then weigh the dipper alone.

Dipper-powder weight minus the dipper weight = powder weight.

This gives the scale enough mass to weigh, some scales don't do very light charges well.

That may make sense. I used to use the Lee measure scale to weight 42.5gr of IMR SR-4759 for my 250gr Hornady SST for my muzzleloader. This is a BIG difference in weighing a measly 6.4 gr.

 

[Roccobro]

I then dipped the Alliant Unique powder firstly with 0.7 dipper hoping to read 6.4 grains. The scale didn't even budge. Hmmm, I cheked the scale and its components and even zeroed it in empty. I tried again...nothing, not a movement on the scale. I tried the other dippers and dialed in the corresponding weights...still no change in the scale.

This is the magnetically dampened Lee scale your using? Sounds like you just had the beam hung up. Gotta make sure it swings freely before you use it for weighing charges. It's a great scale for it's $20 price. But it doesn't hold a candle to any decent budget name brand scales.

Justin

 

[Sport45]

I don't think he was actually weighing the charge from the dipper. He set the scale to what he thought it would be and then dumped the charge in. It wasn't enough to move the scale off the low limit. If he had moved the weights he could have determined the weight of his dipped powder.

 

[ironhat]

On second thought, I was wrong so I deleted it.

 

[SASS#23149]

the bushings for My Lee LoadAll shotgun loader are also way off from the chart it came with.Safety factor built-in is my guess. My regular Lee dippers are also famous for throwing light charges.
Just use the dipper that gives the charge you want,and you're good to go.

 

[Walkalong]

First, the dippers don't always throw what the chart says, and that is why we verify with a scale.

Second, any good scale should be able to weigh small charges of powder, whether it's Unique, or Clays, or whatever. The RCBS 505 I had, and now the Redding R2, would & will weigh charges as small as 2 to 3 grs with consistency. Naturally some powders are more consistent than others, especially at those small charge weights.

 

[JimKirk]

any good scale

That may be part of the problem!

Jimmy K

 

[Sport45]

any good scale

That may be part of the problem!

I don't think so. I have a Lee scale and it matched my Dillon beam scale and Pact BBK2 electronic scale for accuracy. You just have to understand how to use them. I think his problem is that he set the scale to what he thought the dipped charge would weigh and then didn't know what was going on when the scale didn't move when he dumped the powder in the pan. Lee dippers are notorious for dumping light charges. I don't know if this is a manufacturing error or just cautious conversion charts, but I suspect the latter.

 

[Walkalong]

I then dipped the Alliant Unique powder firstly with 0.7 dipper hoping to read 6.4 grains. The scale didn't even budge.

Are you saying that a .7CC dipper full of Unique did not move the scale? That is how I read it, and it surely should have registered the increase in powder.

 

[JimKirk]

Maybe we need for BP Hunter to come back and clarify what he did.

I then dipped the Alliant Unique powder firstly with 0.7 dipper hoping to read 6.4 grains. The scale didn't even budge. Hmmm, I checked the scale and its components and even zeroed it in empty. I tried again...nothing, not a movement on the scale. I tried the other dippers and dialed in the corresponding weights...still no change in the scale.

If in fact he set the scale at 6.4 grains and only put 5 grains in, the scale still would have moved regardless that it was 1.4 grains short, it would have still moved.

Now if he set it at 100 grains and put 5 grains it may have not moved at all.

My question to BP Hunter: did you weigh the powder to see what it did weigh or did you just hope that it would weigh 6.4. I went back and reread and nowhere did I see where you said the dipper full of powder weighed "X" grains instead of 6.4 grains.

This statement is becoming my explanatory answer/question for a lot of post here lately:
SOMETHING AIN"T ADDING UP RIGHT. I think a piece of the puzzle is missing and may be under the table.

Jimmy K

 

[Roccobro]

All this help and no reply or conclusion from the OP...

Justin

 

[ants]

Justin, the OP replied in posts #5 and #9. I think that's reasonable. You and others made other posts after that, but I think the appreciation he expressed was adequate.

 

[Roccobro]

I wasn't looking for any appreciation, more of a conclusion. A very "Unique" situation had many people intrigued.

Justin

 

[JimKirk]

Still has!

JK

 

[MachIVshooter]

Seriously, the aggravation of messing around with dippers and funnels is so not worth saving the minimal cost of a measure. The Lee measurer can be had for much less than the Pictured RCBS uniflow (What I use) above.

 

[Mal H]

Let's hope BP Hunter does update us on what he found out.

I think Sport45 got the answer spot on when he said: "I don't think he was actually weighing the charge from the dipper. He set the scale to what he thought it would be and then dumped the charge in. It wasn't enough to move the scale off the low limit. If he had moved the weights he could have determined the weight of his dipped powder."

Sounds like BP Hunter was expecting a certain weight of powder, and was surprised when the difference between the expected weight and the actual weight was large enough such that the beam didn't leave the resting position.

 

[BP Hunter]

The op is back!

Sorry for the slience. I have been busy doing stuff.

OK, to clarify everything. Based on the Lee dipper chart, the 0.7cc dipper should have weighed 6.4gr for the Unique. I calibrated the Lee powdeer scale to zero. I then moved it to 6.4 gr. I then weighed 0.7cc dipper of unique hoping to read 6.4. It moved a bit. I weighed it on a digital scale in the store and it actually weighed only 5gr.

I purchased a Lee Perfect Powder Measure hoping to get exact measurements. I weighed a batch of Unique powder. 3cc divided by the actual weight gave me a VMD. That VMD multiplied by the 6.4gr gave me helped me adjust the volume. So far it has only been off +/-1 gr.

I have actually made my first 5 bullets of .45 ACP using 6.4gr of Unique. 230gr Hornady XTP and Federal LP Primer. I seem to be happy with it out of Taurus PT1911.

Thanks for you help guys!!