Connecticut valley arms percussion .54 cal

[Sharpie443]

Posted a video of me shooting my brothers Connecticut valley arms percussion .54 cal. I had to clean it up a bit first because it was sitting in the basement for the last two years. He is off with the navy but before he left he apparently loaded this gun and couldn't get it to go off. Then he put it in the basement and forgot to tell anyone. So when i took it home to clean it up and do this shooting video i discovered it was loaded. What i found inside the gun reminded me that my brother is not very informed when it comes to black powder firearms. It was loaded with what I think is smokeless pistol powder. I'm not 100% on that but it wasn't black powder. I show exactly what i found in the vidio but you might be more interested in the shooting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntrcts-Ln8g

 

[Oldnamvet]

Smokeless pistol powder!
He is very lucky it didn't go off or he may have been out of the navy with a disability.

 

[Sharpie443]

If there had been a patched ball in there then yes definitely but a paper wad would have just been a big boom. Not enough resistance to build up pressure.

 

[arcticap]

The extra .50 barrel looked like it may be a CVA barrel.
I thought that I heard you say that it was also Spanish made
But it did look like it was a heavier than usual .50 barrel though.

 

[mykeal]

Before checking to see if the gun was loaded, you blew down the barrel to see if any air would come out.

Why would you place your head over the muzzle before you determine if the gun is loaded?

I understand the nipple was 'corroded shut', and you removed it first. Actually, all you knew is that the nipple flash hole was closed up; corrosion may or may not have been the cause. In any case, that doesn't justify intentionally putting the barrel in your mouth before you know if it's loaded.

This time it was, and it didn't go off. I agree the odds were high, perhaps even very high, that it wouldn't go off, 'if' loaded. Still, this is a very dangerous practice.

 

[Sharpie443]

That's actually a fairly common way to do it and there aren't many options when testing to see if a muzzle-loader is loaded. Thankfully i am not a magical creature so I don't breath fire. How do you think you unload these guns you have to stick that screw down there and pull the ball out if there is a problem. If it when off then you would have a brass arrow on your hands but once again if you are not a dragon you will be fine. Now if it was my gun it would have a marked ram rod but it isn't so that's how you test it. There is a line between being safe and being ridiculous. Blowing down the barrel is the easiest and a safe way to check to see if a Bp firearm is unloaded if you don't have a marked ramrod. Actually it's just about the only way apart from setting it off and seeing what happens.

 

[[email protected]]

This has got to be one of the dumbest things I ever heard of. My daughter
New better than to stick a barrel of a gun in her mouth when she was 5 years
Old. She read this and said, Dad what's the matter with this guy. I do hope
You won't do this again. If you ever did this on a regular Black Powder range,
You would be told to leave in no uncertain terms. Please don't do this again.

 

[Sharpie443]

Well If I was at the range that would be one thing but at home with a gun that hasn't been fired or near a spark in two years is another. Like i said there is a line between safety and being ridiculous. Spontaneous combustion is possible but so winning the lottery while being struck by lightning. I have actually seen it done at a range and no cared. Why would you considering you are standing over it while loading the thing. If your worried about that you mine as well be worried about keeping a can of Bp in the house. It could conceivably go off at any moment. It's a bit patronizing to tell someone like have any authority to not do something again when I'm clearly in no danger. When i encounter a new muzzle-loader i do this every time to check to see if it is loaded before messing with it. It is far less dangerous that way. i would rather know that it is loaded and risk spontaneous combustion or the possibility that i turn into a fire breathing dragon. You drive around in a heavy steel vehicle going faster than most humans in modern history thought possible powered by a tank of combustible liquid. I would be more concerned about that.

 

[mykeal]

I really don't care if you want to go around sticking a loaded gun in your mouth or not: it's your head and your life. But for any folks new to the sport:

That's actually a fairly common way to do it and there aren't many options when testing to see if a muzzle-loader is loaded.

That's absolutely NOT TRUE. It's very UNcommon for people to put loaded guns in their mouths, and there are several very good and reliable ways of checking to see if a muzzleloader is loaded without doing that.

 

[Sharpie443]

See comment above and it is fairly common from what I've seen. I learned it from a guy who did it his whole live. No spontaneous combustion in over 40 years. i even posted this on a muzzle-loading forum not a word from them about this even being odd. Like i said if you are afraid of that then you should remove all loose powder from your house and if you have a CCW then you should just stop carrying right now. If you have the gun holstered or there are people around then you will have the gun pointed at some part of your body (Side, rear end leg foot, or someone else if you bend over with a under arm holster) for longer than it takes me to blow down a muzzle-loader. There is safe and then there is ridiculous.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I check every gun with a ram rod before doing any thing with it. The number of old double barrels with one or two loads in a barrel is amazing.
Three years ago, I represented an estate and several Spanish made muzzle loader pistols were found in a closet. Out of 7 pistols, one had a dryball and two were loaded.

The old maxim of treating every gun as if loaded goes three times over for muzzle loaders. Folks who would never leave a shell in a shotgun or rifle often think nothing of putting a loaded muzzle loader away.

I know of one guy that blew a hole through a tv and bed room wall toying with a pump shot gun that "wasn't loaded." Another, whose kid was lucky and only lost half his ear when an "unloaded" rifle went off, in the den. At our municipal recycling center around Memorial day this year, somebody dropped off one of those big flat screen tv's, with a three inch hole through it. Sure looked like a shotgun blast hit it.

As part of his job, my dad investigated hunting accidents for the state of PA, the stories were mild compared to what I have seen recently.

 

[Sharpie443]

Yes it is surprising how many are out there. Everyone i know has run into a loaded muzzle-loader that was supposedly unloaded. I had to tell a dealer at a gun show that he had a loaded one sitting on his table. He had no idea.

 

[mykeal]

There is safe and then there is ridiculous.

You're right about that.
Safe is checking to see if the gun is loaded before putting the muzzle in your mouth.
Ridiculous is not.

 

[fogg64]

I am in your camp about this one Sharpie443. There is a big difference between a 'loaded-without a cap' muzzle loader and a cartridge firearm. It is much more common to discharge an 'unloaded' cartridge firearm than a 'loaded-without a cap' muzzle loader.

 

[Sharpie443]

Without a cap it's not even a legally loaded firearm. I could put it in my car and drive around with it. Same with an uncapped cylinder for a cap&ball revolver. At a CBAS range you can have a charge and ball in the cylinder with no caps and it's not considered loaded. having a spare cylinder in my pocket is as dangerous as blowing down the barrel to see if it is loaded. In other words not even remotely dangerous. Do you put a helmet on before you get in the shower just in case of a slip because that is more dangerous than what I'm doing. It wouldn't take an act of god for you to slip but it would for an uncapped muzzle-loader to go off for no reason at that exact moment after being just fine for two years. You are being a safety Nazi for no rational reason. Like I said before you should probably remove all powder and ammunition from your house if you are that concerned about miraculous spontaneous combustion.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

A lady outside of harrisburg pa was killed by an unprimed flintlock rifle she was unloading from her car.
Caps often leave eno primer residue to fire the gun even after the cap is removed

 

[Acorn Mush]

Caps often leave eno primer residue to fire the gun even after the cap is removed

Zimmerstutzen, can you give us an example of this happening? In my nearly 50 years of muzzleloading I have never seen any amount of active priming compound residue on a nipple after removing a cap. Just in my experience though.

Your reference to the unprimed flintlock is quite possible however, especially if the touch hole is a bit enlarged and the powder charge is visible through the hole. I have read on other forums about guys successfully shooting their unprimed flinters. Just one spark in the right place is all it takes... .

 

[fogg64]

It is very possible for a flintlock to be fired without it being primed. All it needs is a spark, such is the nature of the beast. Oops, sorry for repeating what you said Acorn Mush, Usually it take a cap to ignite a caplock and sometimes not (misfires). No doubt someone will try to make a case that the hammer failing on the nipple will create enough spark.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I don't know if those foil lined caps are still available. My buddy and I had been out small game hunting with our double barrel muzzleloaders and it started to rain. In accordance with the law when we got back to the car, we removed the caps and stowed the guns. Went for lunch and started hunting again when the shower passed. We were getting ready to go cap up again and he said look at this. There was a round flake of primer and the foil liner stuck to the nipple. It fired with no recapping.

I have talked to others who, although rarely, found similar clumps of primer material on their nipples after removing the caps.

I had "stuff" stuck inside a nipple once after removing a brass italian cap. I didn't try to shoot it that way.

I also no longer uncap or dump prime before putting a gun in the car. They are fully unloaded, fired if need be.

 

[Acorn Mush]

Zimmerstutzen, thanks for the first-person account. It certainly illustrates the point that we must always be mindful of what we are doing in order to prevent accidents.

I have used a number of those old brass Italian caps and even had the compound fall out of them while stored in their container. It just never happened to me when I uncapped a nipple.

Thanks again.

AM

 

[BigG]

The way to check if a muzzle loader is loaded is to stick the ramrod down the bbl. Unloaded the ramrod will descend almost entirely within the bbl except for maybe an inch while loaded 3 or more inches will extend out of the bbl.

 

[mykeal]

...if it's the original ramrod that came with the gun. Maybe.

Or just drop it the last half inch and listen; you can tell the difference between steel and lead when it hits bottom.

 

[BADUNAME30]

I sure hope there aint any newbies readin this thread.
In many years of gun business i've encountered all kinds of folk that jist don't have a clue. And this is the kind of thing that can and does influence the 'mindless'.
THERE IS NEVER ANY REASON TO PUT THE MUZZLE OF ANY GUN IN YOUR MOUTH. PERIOD !!!

Sharpie, i would highly recomend that you do some research on the effects of static electricity and black powder.

A moderator needs to remove this thread. Or at least the video.

BTW, the powder looks like 'stick' smokeless rifle powder.
One good thing, you may have saved your brother from serious injury.

 

[BADUNAME30]

Or just drop it the last half inch and listen; you can tell the difference between steel and lead when it hits bottom.

If it is loaded mykeal, (ball seated properly), the ramrod will bounce if ya give a 'spear' type toss down the Bbl.

 

[loose noose]

Sharpie, Why didn't you just take a ramrod, place it down the barrel, check the end of the rod, and then with the check point place it along side (outside) of the barrel and see how far the end of the ram rod ended up. If it was anywhere near the nipple it would suffice to say the arm was empty. Further I'd much rather have an arrow go thru my hand rather have a ball go thru my head.