Considering a .22 for my emergency bag

[drekar]

Hi folks, I am new to the form, and joined because it seems that this place actually enforces some semblance of maturity while still having fun.

I have a question for you all. Being a CCL holder, I carry a Kimber Ultra .45. I also have a full-size Springfield 1911A1 I carry when cold weather allows for more concealing clothing. I love these guns, but I am looking for something very different.

I am trying to find a good gun for a general-purpose emergency bag. Being the cheerleader for .45 that I am, I can't believe I am considering this, but a .22LR pistol actually may fit the bill. I want you more experienced firearms folks to kick around the idea and give me your thoughts.

Reasons for the .22 idea include (but more keep popping into my mind):

1. They are light. Not just the gun, but the AMMO! This emergency bag needs to be light, and it doesn't get much lighter than .22. Even cleaning supplies would be smaller.

2. They are good for small game hunting, while not being completely underpowered for self-defense (a long google trek for .22 lethality left me quite impressed with their potency).

3. Quietness. If I am using my emergency bag, it is an emergency, and I would rather be less loud than more.

4. Training. It is possible I would be in a situation where I would need to keep my .45 on me and leave the emergency-bag gun with someone else. Should this person be less-than-proficient with a handgun, a .22 is a good place to start.

5. Rifle variant. There are very lightweight camping .22 rifles available that could be stored in my "primary" survival bag (the big honking camping pack I keep ready at home) that could then make even further use of the ubiquitous .22 cartridge.

I would have my .45 (carry it every day) with me with at least 2 mags. This would probably be my primary gun in the unlikely event of the need for a large-caliber to stop an aggressor (man or animal). As much as I love my Kimber for its accuracy and reliability, it needs to be clean to be reliable. In an emergency situation this may not be possible. This is part of the reason my emergency bag currently contains a 9mm Springfield XD.

Anyway, please oh wise sages of thehighroad, help!

(maybe I am just looking for an excuse for a new toy )

Thanks for any input folks, and HI!

-Drekar

P.S. Can anyone point me in the direction of a thread detailing long-term firearm storage techniques? I want this emergency bag to be as close to maintenance-free as possible.

 

[rrruuunnn]

i'm curious what others have to say too.

 

[Joeyp]

Re: .22 for emergency bag

I would give some consideration to a .22 conversion kit for your .45's
I have a CZ 75B and purchased the Kadet Kit which is the CZ .22 conversion. I belong to a couple of the CZ forums and it is a very popular item. It is a very simple swap of slides and the kadet is very accurate. Kimber makes a conversion Kit that I have seen on midway but I have not heard anything about it.

It is really nice to be able to shoot .22 and 9mm on the same frame. When I go to the range I shoot a couple hundred .22's with the Kadet slide on the frame and then switch over to 9mm slide and shoot 50 or so rounds. It really keeps the cost of shooting down and all the extra shooting I have been doing is improving my skills. Instead of packing another whole pistol you could pack more ammo and spare parts. Just a thought.

 

[epijunkie67]

Match the weapon to the job. You don't hammer with a screwdriver.

Yes, the .22 can be very lethal. So can a rusty nail. And just like a rusty nail, it might kill someone but it won't do it quickly.

So the first thing to ask yourself is, what is the intended focus of this weapon? Self defense? Hunting small game? Both?

If the function is to hunt small game then a .22 pistol may be fine for you. However, you may want to get one with a scope since a pistol is a lot harder to hunt with than a rifle. Another option would be to actually use a lightweight rifle instead. I think the cricket might be a perfect gun for this.
http://www.crickett.com/CrickettRifle/crickettrifle.html
The pistol you are considering is 1.5 pounds and the rifle is 2.5 pounds, but you gain a 16 inch barrel and much more steady platform.

If you feel that your emergency bag gun will have to do duty as a self defense weapon then I would have to recommend against a .22. Yes, I would rather have one over being unarmed but it would be near (but not at) the bottom of my list.

If you always have your carry piece with you it's not unreasonable to plan on using that as your SD weapon and the .22 rifle or pistol as a hunting tool.

 

[rrruuunnn]

i think epijunkie67 makes sense. you wouldn't see someone grab a 22lr in any anarchy movie.

 

[Tribal]

How much money are you looking to spend?

1. I have a Marlin 915Y; it breaks down with the turn of a screw to a barrel and stock which can be stowed in a regular backpack but is single shot. <$150 (+scope)
2. How about an AR-7? If you need it for defense, you're going to need it in semi-auto. $200+
3. Depending on how much you want to spend and how quiet you need to be, you may want something with a threaded barrel so you can add a suppressor. The Walther P22 is a decent option for this. $700+ (+scope or laser)
4. Are you sure a .223 like a SU-16C or PLR-16 won't fit your needs? Maybe a PLR-16 with SU-16C stock, grip-pod, scope, and suppressor? $1300+

 

[Robert Hairless]

The trouble with .22 semi-automatics is that they tend to be fussy about ammunition and get even fussier if they're not scrupulously maintained. There are some brands and models that tend to be more reliable over a broader range of ammunition, but in my own experience it's pretty nearly a situation of how the specific gun behaves with the specific ammunition.

You might want to get a .22 revolver instead of a semi-auto.

 

[dmftoy1]

I can't believe that nobody has said "Welcome to the board" yet. So welcome aboard!!

I'd go one of two ways. I'd get a Ruger Mark III in whatever their current "light barrel" config is now adays. I might take a hard look at the 22/45 since it has the same ergonomics/controls as your 1911 and will double as an inexpensive target gun. They're not too heavy even with the bull barrel because of the plastic frame. The ONLY knock against the ruger's is the screwy re-assembly, but once you know the trick that's dead simple as well.

I picked up the pre-cursor, a Mark II a few years back from an old boss of mine. It had had ZERO maintenance to in in over 12 years of pretty heavy usage .. .no lube, no cleaning, nothing. I asked him how many rounds he'd put through it and he said it was at least 10,000 as he sat on the back deck every night after work "plinking". He sold it to me because the barrel was "shot out", but it still functioned perfectly well. I gave it a good cleaning with some "lead remover" cloth and that damn thing will still shoot under 1 inch groups out of my hands at 25 yards. I've probably put another 5000 rounds through it since I've owned it. (FWIW)

Ok . . .now back to your original question. If your "emergency bag" is a backpack then I'd second what another poster said about a rifle. Even a Ruger 10/22 will break down pretty easily, and with a synthetic stock they're damn near indestructible. I'd get iron sights and a standard barrel. You're talking a bit more weight though than pistol. (you can check Ruger's website for the specs)

Just my .02

Regards,
Dave

 

[Titan6]

I'd second the Ruger 10/22, they are handy little guns for everything you want. But don't get a new one unless you want to spend a few weeks breaking it in. Buy a good action for it cheap then accesorize it to death to get it the way you want it. With a light stock it will weigh slightly more than your Springfield.

 

[drekar]

Thanks all for the great replies. I have definitely gotten some more to think about.

I actually have a Ruger 10/22 right now. Was one of my first guns. I will take that sucker apart tonight and see how well it fits in my bag.
I must admit I also really like the SU-16C or PLR-16.

Unfortunately both of those options are a bit larger than I was planning on. They will work great for my full-size BOB. My current question is more what will fit in my tiny little always-with-me bag, and it really can only fit a pistol. I could also keep a .22 conversion kit on hand allong with a few boxes of ammo....

Maybe keeping the 9mm is a good route. Balance between ammunition weight and power. The other idea i was kicking around is a Sig p250, since it apparently can change calibers.

Thanks again all for your helpful responses so far.

P.S. Budget is really not an issue, unless it is horrendously expensive.

 

[mbt2001]

WELCOME




I second your idea for a .22 in the emergency bag. I can't help but notice that you didn't say emergency assualt bag, but a 72 hour kit, an emergency kit. So I am not sure why everyone is dumping on the .22.

The Marlin Papoose

The AR 7

Heritage Rough Riders are rugged cheap revolvers that would make a good addition to the pack, with the above mentioned rifles. Getting a conversion kit for your .45 would probably be a better idea than the rough rider, but either would work in conjunction with the above rifles.

As far as storage goes, there are several storage options, I like the idea of the anti corrosion bags...

http://www.chuckhawks.com/z-corr_bags.htm

One more thing. A .22 is not recommended by anyone for self defense. It is not an impressive man stopper, however it does have an incredibly effective rate of fire and virtually no recoil, allowing you to put 6 or more rounds on target in virtually no time at all.

Often the .22 is what is at hand when a gun is needed and it has aquitted itself over and over again as a capable tool, but the purpose of the gun should not be for defensive use. You should make other arrangements (keeping the .45 and getting the conversion kit to make it compatible with your bag) to ensure effective self defense BUT "they also serve who only stand and wait". Stand and wait for the call / need of their master.

Good luck.

 

[TAB]

I would recomend a gun with a tub magazine rather then a detacable one.

 

[Pilot]

I would recomend a gun with a tub magazine rather then a detacable one.

Then the rifle can't break down like the Papoose. I like the Marlin Papoose option. A Ruger Standard MK II pistol in stainless steel would be good also. Personally my carry gun is a CZ-75D PCR and that would go with me in an emergency along with the .22 Kadet Kit adapter. Perfect combo.

 

[CraigJS]

I also carry a PCR and love it dearly. I wouldn't get a conversion kit for any bugout bag, but a separate .22lr pistol. I had a Kadet kit but got rid of it. (liked it just didn't use it) What if your primary pistol that you have a "kit" for in your bag BREAKS, spring, pins whatever. Then you have NO pistol. Separate pistol and you'll always have a BUG!
A .22 pistol with good sights is more than capable of feeding you, defending you in a pinch, easy to carry with other stuff in your bag, easy to hide if you ever have to (searches), plus 500 rounds won't "weigh ya down" if you need to move quickly...
Just my .02
be safe, CraigJS

 

[Pat-inCO]

I'll second the AR-7. For your stated purpose (which several posters missed) the AR-7 would be very handy. Since you plan on having a .45 with you the other SD considerations are moot.

 

[ChopperKen]

browning buckmark 22 pistol in the emergency pack, buckmark target rifle in the BOB, they share the same mag's and most internal parts.
other than that I would go with my single 6 rugerW/the mag cyl for bigger game, and a 10-22 folder in my BOB....JMO.

 

[GunTech]

I have a different sort of emergency gun - mostly used by my son for plinking varmints. Too bad they stopped making them.

M6 scout, 22 hornet over 410. Spare ammo in the butt.

 

[Tribal]

Spare ammo in the butt.

Don't you think he'd be more comfortable if you let him store the spare ammo in his vest pouches?

 

[rrruuunnn]

..............

 

[robert garner]

for your purpose

The scoped or other wise sighted .22 pistol ,revolver. Should suffice admirably.
Remember though, that while a .22 is a beginners gun, it is an experts weapon.
Many on this board "could" use the .22,I can't tho recall any recommending one. HenryV on the eve of battle at Agencourt,(paraphrased)" as I am I would not seek a fight,but as I am I would not leave from one" Henry was both outclassed and outmanned,further his troops were beset with dysentery,hungry and wet.

G-d, was with Henry that day. but dont handicap yourself!
robert

 

[ilbob]

IMO, a firearm is a bad choice to put in your BOB or whatever you want to call it. You can leave room for one in your bag if you want, but you need to consider just what you plan to do and where you plan to go with your BOB when you might need to use it. It is unlikely any official or semi-official shelter will allow you to have a firearm.

Many posters here seem to feel that in some kind of emergency they will head for the wild and live off the land for some period of time. I think that is completely unrealistic. Even in the worst cases (think Katrina) no one left the city and tried to live off the land.

People ended up bugging out, bugging in, or in some kind of shelter. Those are your realistic options and your planning ought to be focused on those options. Personally, I think being in a shelter with no control over your own destiny and being trapped with hundreds of people in a similar state just sucks, but it could well be better than the available alternatives.

I am not opposed to giving some consideration to the more remote options you might conceivably face, but don't outfit yourself with all kinds of things that are useless to yourself in a real emergency to accommodate an emergency that you are almost certain to never face.

<added>
One option might be to get a 22 conversion kit for your standard 45 pistol. They can be very reliable, accurate and easy to switch back and forth. Marvel makes the best ones.

As for the AR7 someone suggested, I have one, and it is fun to shoot. It is also a bit picky about what ammo it likes. I have not found any ammo that it is especially accurate with.

 

[owlhoot]

I started to toss in my two cents and realized that I don't understand the question. Or at least, I don't understand the purpose of the gun in question.

This is not a gun for the main survival bag. In that bag there is a .22 rifle and a 9mm. I gather this gun will not go in a vehicle emergency pack inasmuch as long term, maintence free storage is a consideration. Therefore, this gun must be for a stash kit, and light weight and small size are important considerations. We don't know the purpose envisioned for the kit or the weapon, but we know that Drekar is smarter than the average bear, and if he thinks a .22 handgun will fill the bill, I would be inclined to agree with him. So I would suggest a S&W .22 kit gun. I don't know if S&W still makes them but a zillion have been sold over the years. I've owned several and they are gems. .22 cal, 4" barrel, J frame, Adj. sights. This gun has small size but target gun accuracy. It won't be finnicky about ammo, has no magazine to lose, and is ultra dependable and requires very little maintenence.

But if I were putting this bag together, I would have a S&W model 60 with three inch barrel and adjustable sights. That is a gun that can do everything in a pinch.

 

[ilbob]

I am not real sure what the OP thinks this particular gun is for either. I have a Ruger Single Six revolver that came with two cylinders - one for 22LR and one for 22Mag.

22Mag is not exactly into defensive caliber handguns, but beats 22LR hands down.

I am sure any kind of handgun is especially good for hunting small game (like rabbits or squirrels). The skill level it takes to reliably kill small game with a handgun at realistic distances is not common. A rifle is a much better choice.

 

[Headless]

A .22LR from a pistol (5" barrel) is still quite loud; you may be surprised. You'll need a long rifle barrel to bring the sound down to reasonable levels. I second the post above about the AR-7 - I actually got to see one of those this weekend at the range and was impressed with it - accurate enough that the guy who owned it was shooting shotgun shells off of the target frames @ 100 yards.

 

[ilbob]

I second the post above about the AR-7 - I actually got to see one of those this weekend at the range and was impressed with it - accurate enough that the guy who owned it was shooting shotgun shells off of the target frames @ 100 yards.

My AR7 won't do that at 25 yards. But my Henry lever action will (at least it can shoot well enough to do it).

AR7s seem to be pretty random quality wise.