Contemplating a bolt rifle, unsure of caliber

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biblefreak

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So I have been toying with the idea of getting a centerfire bolt platform but don't know exactly what caliber would best suit my needs. I have been mostly considering a 25.06 or a .243. My criteria is accuracy, easy to shoot (read minimum recoil) and although I do not hunt I would like to have a round that can take game should the opportunity arise. I reload, so that's not a big issue and the ability to use a wide range of bullet weights depending on needs would be nice. My main purpose would be paper punching at 100-300 yards.
I am open to other calibers, and currently not debating optics. Will most likely end up with a Burris or Leupold.
So, what say you, great brain trust of THR?
 
Do you shoot a lot? If so those cartridges are pretty hot and will wear a bbl out faster than some other popular cartridges. For paper punching from 100-300 most anything will work while some will be better than others. What kind of game you thinking you might hunt? What rifle you going to get?
 
I am very open on the which rifle, Remington, Savage etc. I get to the range probably around 20-30 times a year at most. If I was to go hunt anything it would most likely be deer in Texas, maybe wild hogs if the cartridge is up to it, if not then my Mosin is!!

You say those cartridges are hot and will wear a bbl out pretty fast, what are we talking here, 1500 rds? 5000 rds? Is there a better choice for a round that is pretty flat shooting, accurate, etc?

Thanks for the reply.
 
Basically for paper punching in those calibers the barrels going to wear in at around 850 to 1500 rds by then depending on loads you've shot there's going to be a good amount of throat erosion and a small loss of accuracy (if the said rifle ever had any) For hunting the 3000rnd mark is about the end of the line for accuracy in those cartridges IMO YMMV. If you go to the range 20 times a year and shoot 100rnds that's 2K per year. If I were you I'd get a Savage 10 or 110 and plan to replace the bbls yourself (if you have the skills) and you can even change calibers if you stick to using cartridges from the same family i.e. .243 win, .260 Rem, 7mm-08, .308 win, .338 win. etc.
 
hmmm... this will be actually tougher than usual; the handloading thing throwing everything about here. I would have said 22 hornet; which is proly the handloaders dream cartridge, but you said to hunt possibly as well.
now then, if you paper punch, you certainly can do the 243 or 25, and they do have a nice variety of bullets; especially the 243, you can get some very nice vld type bullets for it. As far as bbl burners go; I say mmeh! I suppose, if you over shoot them, don't let them cool down at least 1 minute between shots, shoot hot loads, etc.
I have an old, OLD OLD; remmy 788 in 243. Very well worn, you can tell by looking at the bolt. Yet it still shoots absolutely lights out with factory feddy ammo blue box, the cheapest stuff you can buy.
Will it win a benchrest competition? proly not. Could it? maybe on a good day, with a great shooter. I am pretty good I think, and I can get it sub moa at 100 yds, every time I shoot it. Will it kill a deer or pig? Absolutely. I have put many a round through/behind the shoulder of a piggie, and it shears off the tops of the lungs, and heart usually, and they end up, seriously doing the kickin chicken. I am trying to think more of a practical standpoint for you here , though. As in cheap- just my thinking not trying to imply yours.
You could do better with a 260 remington, like a better 243, and components will cost the same. Also a very nice round would be a 6.5 swiss; very nice and mild. Also what comes to mind is a great round in the 6mm area; the 6mm remington. It is also a faster 243, but with the same bullet. Now then, people will tell you it is a barn burner, but I say no more than a 243, because of it's long , elegant neck/case length, the brass helps a lot to cool down that burning gas plug, before it gets into your bbl throat.
Let us not forget some other great 6 class rounds, the 6 ppc, the 6 xc, and I would also not overlook a 6.5 lapua or 6.5 x 47, these last ones are very mild on recoil.
Of a matter of course, i like very small stuff that does a big job, or carts that really max out there potential, without a lot of firepower, so I will throw in a couple of others to think about here. a 6.5 grendel would be great- a small , fat case, which we know does a great job in cooking the ingredients, fireing out a greatly accurate round. and last but not least, a 7.62 x 39.
there is a dude here , who handloads a savage rifle he had built in this cal, and it wreaks of fantastic accuracy. plus the cartridge does a big job, with a little powder, and bullets and cases that don't break the bank.
CZ makes the little 527 carbine, which I have, which can turn even the crappiest of eurotrash 762 rounds, and make them pretty darn accurate. And it will have set trigger as well, yummy!
It is a nice looking rifle, and fairly expensive, expect to find them new for 600 or so, used you might find cheaper. Again, it is nice, with great fit and finish, and very nice wood, so if you want a beater, get a savage, get a bbl made for it, and make it into a long bble'd tactical, that you don't mind getting dirty.
I am going for a max here on recoil by the way; i am saying the above carts, will not eclipse the felt recoil of the 25. this is why i did not mention stuff like a 7.08 or such, though a 257 roberts could do the trick as well, but then again, that is very close to a 260 remmy, so why bother, unless the components are cheaper...

But hey, I have gone on way to long here, so lets hear some other dudes.
Again, my priorities were to keep the component cost down, and keep the recoil down to the 25 level,
or less.
 
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I would recommend a Savage Weather Warrior in one of their short action calibers .... you can buy them new with the AccuStock and AccuTrigger for under $600.

http://www.savagearms.com/16fcss.htm

7mm-08 would give you good accuracy, light recoil, long barrel life, reasonable bullet selection and enough bullet energy out past 300 yards for all sorts of game.

:)
 
"...my Mosin is!!..." And felt recoil is an issue?
A heavy, barreled .223. Good for varmints up to coyotes. Some places allow it for deer too, but the bullet used for larger game is critical. So is the rifling twist. A heavy barreled rifle in any calibre is a lot to lug around hunting anything though. Not such a big deal if you hunt out of a blind. Most .223's are rifled for varmints(light bullets) and don't shoot heavy bullets(60 grains and up) well. Light felt recoil with lots of good quality ammo and match grade bullets readily available for not a ton of money. It'll do for hogs with the right bullet. "With the right bullet" applies to everything.
A .25-06 is a dandy deer sized game and varmint hunting cartridge, but ammo isn't everywhere and a target round it isn't. Sierra does make a 100 grain Matchking though. It's not as versatile as the .243.
The .243 is too, but there are match grade bullets available for it. The rifling twist matters. Most .243's are rifled for deer sized game. Heavy bullets(85 grains and up). Varmint bullets are plentiful as well. Ammo is everywhere. So is brass. Not so much for the .25-06.
"...will wear a bbl out pretty fast..." That's a relative thing. A benchrest or high end target shooter will consider a barrel worn out far sooner than a hunter or informal target shooter. Moreso for the benchrest guys. We don't PO them though. Without 'em, there'd be no match grade 6mm bullets.
"...open on the which rifle..." Best bang for your buck is an Accutriggered Savage. They're all basically the same rifle with different barels, finishes and stocks.
Remington 700's are great rifles, but cheap they ain't. They're all the same receiver too.
Decide how much money you want to spend(don't discount buying used either. Takes a lot of abuse to damage a modern commercial rifle) and your primary use.
 
I would have suggested 223rem for target 100-300 but not for hunting deer. I really enjoy plinking / target shooting with my heavy bbl AR-15 for 100-200yrds. For mid range I like to step up to .308 Win.

A Savage Short action with accurtrigger in one of the 308 based cartridges sounds like the best for you needs if you do decide to go bigger than 223 - IMO. I like med to heavy bbls. Even I don't get to the range 20-30times pe year more like 10 for but 95% of my shooting is done there and a heavy bbl rifle is just more accurate and requires less waiting between shots.
 
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As others have mentioned, the 223 would give you target accuracy to what ever distance that you're comfortable with, but by mentioning hunting, I would have to say the 243 Win fits the criteria better.
The 243 is an excellent dual purpose round, with a mild recoil, capable of very flat shooting with lighter bullets for varmints, and deer with heavier bullets.


NCsmitty
 
. My criteria is accuracy, easy to shoot (read minimum recoil)
check

I reload, so that's not a big issue and the ability to use a wide range of bullet weights depending on needs would be nice.
85 to 220grs check

. My main purpose would be paper punching at 100-300 yards.
can do with an astounding degree of accuracy if the rifle is up to it.

7.62x39mm:D Just throwin that out there.


If I wasn't too worried about huntin I would compromise a bit of power for a ton of barrel life and efficiency per LB of powder. It doesn't take much horsepower to be accurate out to 300yds so this opens up a lot of low recoil options, 7.62x39, 6.8spc, 6.5g, 250savage, 300fireball, 6x45 and many many others. All these can also work well at hunting with proper bullet selection.
 
Basically for paper punching in those calibers the barrels going to wear in at around 850 to 1500 rds by then depending on loads you've shot there's going to be a good amount of throat erosion and a small loss of accuracy (if the said rifle ever had any) For hunting the 3000rnd mark is about the end of the line for accuracy in those cartridges IMO YMMV. If you go to the range 20 times a year and shoot 100rnds that's 2K per year. If I were you I'd get a Savage 10 or 110 and plan to replace the bbls yourself (if you have the skills) and you can even change calibers if you stick to using cartridges from the same family i.e. .243 win, .260 Rem, 7mm-08, .308 win, .338 win. etc.
So, what is involved in a bbl swap on a Savage? I am a pretty mechanically inclined kinda guy and the prospect of shooting multiple calibers from one receiver is very intriguing! What kind of scratch do new bbls go for, and are they any less accurate using a common receiver, or is the receiver for all calibers the same?
 
check


85 to 220grs check


can do with an astounding degree of accuracy if the rifle is up to it.

7.62x39mm:D Just throwin that out there.


If I wasn't too worried about huntin I would compromise a bit of power for a ton of barrel life and efficiency per LB of powder. It doesn't take much horsepower to be accurate out to 300yds so this opens up a lot of low recoil options, 7.62x39, 6.8spc, 6.5g, 250savage, 300fireball, 6x45 and many many others. All these can also work well at hunting with proper bullet selection.
7.62x39mm sure seems to have a broad range of bullet weights, but are there many rifles that can be had chambered as such? I like the idea of a cartridge that is readily found on a stores shelf even though I would be handloading 99% of the rounds myself.
 
If you don't think you will ever hunt anything bigger than deer the 243 is your answer. Strictly for paper punching get a 223. If you think you may get a chance to hunt something larger the 7mm-08 has very manageable recoil and with the right bullets will kill anything in North America but the big bears out to 300 yards or slightly more.

The 308 is the next step up in recoil and power and is available in heavier bullets but in reality the 7-08 will out perform it by a slight margin. The 308's main advantage is that ammo is easier to find. If you relaod it does not matter.
 
7.62x39mm sure seems to have a broad range of bullet weights, but are there many rifles that can be had chambered as such? I like the idea of a cartridge that is readily found on a stores shelf even though I would be handloading 99% of the rounds myself.

I built mine on the aforementioned savage around a $320 drop in prefit shilen match bbl. Excellent ready to go 7.62x39 rifles are the cz527 the rem 798 and of course ar variations. All of these offer accuracy well beyond what the more contemporary x39 platforms offer
 
You wrote:...."I reload, so that's not a big issue and the ability to use a wide range of bullet weights depending on needs would be nice."....

I think that according to the above you are talking about .30 caliber and specifically 30-06 which can be loaded with 90 - 220 gr bullets and even smaller sabot rounds. Ammo is inexpensive and very available. Almost all manufactures produce rifles in this caliber and you can make or buy reduced recoil ammo.
 
You wrote:...."I reload, so that's not a big issue and the ability to use a wide range of bullet weights depending on needs would be nice."....

I think that according to the above you are talking about .30 caliber and specifically 30-06 which can be loaded with 90 - 220 gr bullets and even smaller sabot rounds. Ammo is inexpensive and very available. Almost all manufactures produce rifles in this caliber and you can make or buy reduced recoil ammo.
Actually, I was referencing the 7.62x39mm suggestion by krochus. He mentioned bullet weights in 85grs-220grs. That is one heck of a spread!
I am actually looking at the smaller calibers for a couple of reasons. I have a Mosin that kicks like a mule and is only fun to touch off 3-5 rds before I am done. I would like to get something that I could load a little lighter for and get my wife and kids shooting, but wouldn't dislocate my shoulder running hotter hunting rounds through. We all shoot handguns and rimfires, my youngest shoot the .22s the most, but my oldest daughter and wife like shooting most everything (except the Mosin!) in the safe. Everybody likes the scoped .22lr, so it is likely they will enjoy this new toy so long as it is reasonably mild in the recoil dept.!
 
I looked in one of my reloading manuals and following are the bullet weights listed for each cartridge. Considering recoil is usually proportionate to bullet weight they are listed according to size. My current considerations are:

.243 Win 55-117gr 2185-3638fps Potentially hard on bbl
.257 Roberts 60-125gr 1756-3566fps Is this the overlooked sweet spot?
25-06 75-125gr 2104-3460fps More case capacity then .257 Roberts
.260 Rem 85-160gr 2105-3136fps Seems to be quite versatile
7mm-08 100-195gr Maybe getting up there a bit
7.62x39mm 100-150gr krochus mentions 85gr-220gr very versatile

What are the thoughts on the .257 Roberts? Not being much of a rifle guy up to this point, I am not sure what is commercially available or popular. The .260 looks like it could also have promise.
 
257 Roberts is an excellent choice although nowadays it's rapidly becoming a handloading only proposition, and IIRC Ruger is the only manufacturer offering this caliber.
 
Komrad Biblefreak, why don't you reload for the Mosin? You can make light loads for it too. It will kill Russian Bears and Wild Boars as is. You could get a slip on recoil pad for the regular loads.

Anyway, it sounds like you want a modern style target/hunting rifle. Someone mentioned the 6.5 Swede cartridge. There are/were commercial rifles chambered in that. Then you could get a nice Swedish Mauser to keep you Mosin company!

Or, you could go with a 6.5-284. Great long range round, or so I've read.

In any case, have fun!

Tom
 
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I want to go back and touch apoun my suggestion of smaller cased rounds and why.

Take the 25-06 for example, with this cartridge burning around 60grs of powder is roughly the norm.

Take something like a fast twist .223, 6.8spc or the aforementioned 7.62x39 and you're down to around 30grs of propellant.

This equates to much much less recoil, and a fatter wallet through burning less powder and corresponding longer bbl life. All while providing excellent accuracy and gane killing ability inside the range you mention
 
What kind of case capacity would you say meets your criteria for minimum recoil? I don't have a manual in front of me but from what I was looking at last night the 7.62x39mm has a relatively small capacity for its bullet size so I assume you are running faster powders?

Another question: What is it about the .243, 6mm etc that causes bbls to wear so fast?
 
I think your short list is excellent for paper punching, and hunting deer-sized and smaller game. You said hunt, but you didn't say hunt what? Either is great. I'm a big fan of .243, and it offers less recoil and ammo component/ammo cost. But the .25-06 is a most excellent cartridge is well. Pick whichever one just floats your boat. These are both extremely flat-shooting wind-bucking rounds, and so make hitting targets at 200 a cakewalk with an accurate rifle and decent optics.

Other cartridges you might consider for your criteria are .257 Roberts, 6mm Remington, .260 Remington, 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser, and 7mm-08, to name a few.
 
For general purpose use, target shooting to hunting, I don't think it gets any better than .308. Bullet choices are abundant, 110 gr to 180 gr, ammo is readily available in a myriad of bullet styles, recoil is pretty mild in a rifle that weighs more than 8lbs, and its very accurate. You can hunt anything from cyote to moose with a .308.

Also, the .308 is very friendly to reloading, easy and forgiving cartridge. Almost any combo you can put together will shoot good.
 
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