Loads for Conversion Cylinders

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flmason

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Have been Googling around and seems folks are using smokeless loads with conversion cylinders in their C&B revolvers?

Is that asking for trouble?

Anyone out there doing the conversion cylinder for a Pietta 1858 Remington? How's it working out? How was the fit? I've read of some folks having timing problems. Would prefer to be able to swap percussion or centerfire cylinders in and out with impunity if possible.
 
As long as they are not exceeding the ratings of the cylinder manufacturer they should have no problem.
 
there are several recommended smokeless power loads for almost all blackpowder carts. the key is learn how to reload 1st, (as I am doing now) get several good name brand loading manuals and follow what the recommend to the letter without fail and one will be safe. fail to do this at your own risk and don't have others around when you shoot.
 
.45acp conversion loading

Does anyone have load data for smokeless (loaded to bp pressures) and black powder cartridges in .45 acp? I havent seen any, myself, (though i might be looking in the wrong places, as im new to all this antique firearm stuf) which i think is odd, as didnt kirst sell .45acp conversion cylinders for a while? I dont have any need for it currently, but id like to know how feasable it is, as handloading in .45acp would let me use the dies and brass and such i already have. If anyone has load data from a manual or a knowledgeable person they could recommend, I'd appreciate it.

Also, can Triple Seven be used in such loads, or is it better to stick to real BP?
 
I'd stick to fffg Black Powder a .45 case full a that is hot enough ... hotter in a .45Colt case...
I don't know any current rating for or way to reduce the load of 777 without a filler in the .45ACP...
 
the only smokeless powder i have used and have great results is trailboss. however unlike most powders. trailboss is almost exclusivly made for this. its a very good powder to use fills the cases on small loads. Other than that i would stick to black powder.
 
I'm using 777 in my .38 S&W loads,not in my S&W Third Model Safety Hammerless,though.I use it in my much stouter Webley .38. My 777 loads are actually snappier than my smokeless loads.
 
I've reloaded in the past. Primarily .44 mag, .357, .45 ACP, .223 and 30-06. As a result I'm rather safety conscious. Also performance conscious.

Hence the search for info that let's me compare the velocities, muzzle energy and pressures of the various options.

At the minute for my purposes I'm actually just leaning towards getting a spare percussion cylinder and loading it with black or Pyrodex. Cheaper than the conversion and if properly waterproofed, should be fine for storage. Seems the performance levels may actually be superior with some black powders and certainly 777. Of course they still make smoke and more fouling.

But, I'm thinking at the moment, I really don't want to go in for the cartridge reloading tooling again. Someday though. Definitely want to do that again. I never consider a firearm purchase complete until I have all the neccesary tools to disassemble the gun and reload the cartridges, including casting the bullets.
 
I looked at the pressure data for BP loads, as when I bought my conversion cylinder for my 1858 Remmie, the notes included from the manufacturer said (iirc) Black Powder Rounds or factory loaded Cowboy Action Ammuntion. Well I compared the pressure for 25 grains of compressed BP to handload data in the Cowboy Action reloading manual from Hodgdon, and found some loads under the BP pressures, so used those recipes.

LD
 
I won't condone my results

or tell you to try it , or be responcible for it if you do , but I have gone way over Cowboy loads in my conversion cylinders with smokeless .
They legally have to write that stuff on the R and D and Kirst cylinders literature so they don't get sued . That's why it says that , not becasue they cannot handle bigger loads .
I will also say that there is no way to over load a conversion cylinder with a cartridge filled with BP . It only hold so much powder . Same goes with current production steel framed cap and ball revolvers and cylinders , no amount of BP is going to blow the cylinder up .
I have no results of 777 , and I aint tryin it either . :D

Das Jaeger
 
The Kirst and R&D cylinders are made of 4140 steel, they are rated for smokeless. As thin as the Remington 45 cal cylinder gets at the web, standard Cowboy loads are as strong as you want to get, they are not Rugers. The reason both makers warn against using them in brass frames is not blow-up, but the stretching of the frame, and in the Colt, the stress on the arbor screwed into the brass. A heavier, and usually harder bullet than the roundball hitting the forcing cone is trying to take the barrel with it.

I have shot Kirst and R&D converted Uberti and Pietta Remingtons and Colts for years in 38 and 45 with smokeless and BP and had no problems with the guns beyond the more rapid wear the cap & ball mechanical parts undergo compared to the harder internals of the cartridge revolvers by the same makers.

The same safety, of course cannot be expected if the cylinder is gunsmith converted using the original cap & ball cylinder. No smokeless allowed there.

As Das Jaeger said, the case can't hold enough black powder or Pyrodex to blow up a Kirst or R&D cylinder.

Actually, 777, though hotter, is closer to the original black powder loads, as the originals were in balloon head cases with more capacity than today's solid head cases, you cannot get 40 gr of black powder in a 45 Colt or 44-40 in a modern made case with a full weight bullet. A full load of 777 in a 45 Colt case is a formidable load, the hand holding the gun certainly knows it went off. I shot it in a converted Ruger Old Army, but hesitate to shoot it in a Remington.
 
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