Conversion of AR15 to Select-fire/Full-Auto

[ATCAF]

Got a question ...
If (I underscore IF) I had an AR15 which was manufactored prior to 1986 (actually 1971) and wanted to convert it legally to either select-fire or full-auto, would BATF approve if I meet the other required criteria (mental, no felonies, no fugitive, etc)? I'm just checking into it to see what the possibilities are and I've checked with BATF and they don't want to tell me anything. Any help IS APPRECIATED in Advance.

 

[THE MACHINIST]

No More Machine Guns Ever, Unless You Are A Class 2 Manufacturer Or Class 3 Dealer

 

[hobgob]

you have to pay for the tax stamp and license for any class 3 weapon, otherwise it is illegal to own a select fire or full auto weapon. it is a lengthy process and quite expensive from what i understand.

 

[w_houle]

The AR-15 wasn't a full auto before '86 so it is not a pre '86

 

[THE MACHINIST]

Im Talking About Actual Construction Of A Machine Gun You Have To Be A Class 2 Manufacturer Of Destructive Devices. No Private Construction Whatsoever

 

[ATCAF]

TO: The Machinist,
If I got a manufactor to convert it and obtained the stamp, I could have it done?

 

[THE MACHINIST]

Sales Would Be Limited To Government, Police Agencies Only.

 

[waterhouse]

If (I underscore IF) I had an AR15 which was manufactored prior to 1986 (actually 1971) and wanted to convert it legally to either select-fire or full-auto, would BATF approve if I meet the other required criteria

No.

As far as civilians are concerned, they aren't adding any more guns to the machine gun registry. It doesn't matter if you found a full auto 1971 M16 in your grandpa's attic. If it wasn't on the registry prior to 1986, you can't get it on the registry, and therefore it is illegal to possess.

 

[Guitargod1985]

ATCAF, unless you manage to obtain an NFA stamp AND a machinegun that was manufactured/converted to automatic and registered BEFORE 1986, you are out of luck. There is absolutely NO way that you, as a private individual, can legally convert your AR-15 to full auto or burst fire. Sorry.
What you need to do is save upwards of ten grand and then purchase a transferable M16 after getting an NFA stamp.

Hope this helps.

 

[Frog48]

The only way you could do a new conversion nowadays is if you bought a registered pre-'86 "drop in auto sear" or "lightning link". If you went this route, you could install it into a brand new AR, because the DIAS/LL are considered the "machine gun", not the AR lower.

 

[Fly320s]

Actually, ATCAF, you may be able to do that.

Take the MP5 for instance. Most of the transferable ones that are available started life as a HK91. A manufacturer then installs a properly-registered full-auto sear (or a legal HK trigger pack), chops the barrel down (short-barreled rifle stamp), and remarks it as a HK MP5.

You would have to find a properly registered auto sear, or whatever is required for the AR15 family (including M16, M4, etc), and see if it can be installed in your AR15. I don't know enough about the AR15 to know if it is even possible.

Worst case... go buy a M16/AR15 that is already on the NFA market.

edit: Grant has the same idea... and he's quicker.

 

[ATCAF]

Guess I gotta scrap that idea!!
At least that clears up a lot of myths I had developed from people who apparently don't really know about the law. Can I apply to register a SBR? And if so, I just need to know what form and any documentation needed to start that process.
THANKS FOR ALL YOUR HELP FOLKS!

 

[Hkmp5sd]

What you need to do is save upwards of ten grand and then purchase a transferable M16 after getting an NFA stamp.

Actually, you purchase the M16 first, get the tax stamp and then take possession. And the price is closer to $20,000 than $10,000.

Can I apply to register a SBR? And if so, I just need to know what form and any documentation needed to start that process

Yep. You need to submit ATF FORM 1 (in duplicate) along with photos and fingerprint cards. You can request the forms be mailed to you from the ATF website. BTW, you apply and get approval BEFORE making the SBR.

 

[ATCAF]

I was just hoping to get around the who $12,000-$15,000 registered sear thing. Guess not!

 

[jlbraun]

grumble grumble when is 922(o) getting overturned grumble grumble

 

[jonboynumba1]

my understanding is no...it had to be a machinegun by that date. A class 2 manufacturer can make all the machineguns they want but they are not transferable for private ownership. They can sell to police/govt agencies allowed to aquire such items. I assume they also export some...I dunno we are only a regular type II FFL. But my understanding is it has to not just be a machinegun legally maufactured but a NFA TRANSFERABLE machinegun. There in being why they cost so dang much. It sucks....I'd pay good money for a RRA selectfire CAR...so would a lot of other law abiding citizens. I will not drop $5000-12,000 + 200 for an old beat up one (though with an AR I guess you can easily replace anything that wears other than the lower...which should just about last forever...probably why they are at the high end of the NFA market...besides being so generally popular.

Wouldn't it be great to live in a free country where you had the right to own whatever property you wished to purchase without begging the governments permission? Alas we live in a society that blames the hardware more than the opertor...who do not legally aquire their full-autos silencers or destructive devices anyway. It's a shame such a healthy industry (arms manufacturing in general) is so hampered...especially these days. Afterall next to great ideas great weapons are what we do best! I am a firm believer that second amendment is not about hunting rifles...it's about millitary small arms in private ownership of a free citizenry. Unfortunately it would seem I'm in the minority.

again I'm not a class III dealer so I'm sure someone can add more depth than what I have but I'm 99% sure the above is correct.

You ever notice how many people that hate guns and certainly class III toys or even just "assault rifle" looking sporters seem to love to travel in armored suburbans and limos surrounded by big scary guys with handguns and a rack of supressed MP5's at hand? If they provided me with that type of free security I might not need to CCW either...maybe!

 

[Chipperman]

Take the MP5 for instance. Most of the transferable ones that are available started life as a HK91

Actually, they were HK94s, the HK91 was the civilian version of the G3.
(You probably knew that, but I want newbies to know the difference).

Actually, you purchase the M16 first, get the tax stamp and then take possession. And the price is closer to $20,000 than $10,000.

You can still get a non-Colt RR for $11-12k easily. If you want the Prancing Pony, it will cost more. M16A1 can be had for about $14-15k, M16A2 is about $18-20k.