Conversion of rifles to pistols?

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Impala

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Hi everybody, I have a friend that wants to convert a Ruger 10/22 into a sort of pistol. He has a custom pistol grip stock that he made from the standard factory birch stock.
My question is this: what is does the law say about converting rifles into pistols? Is it a legal thing to do or are there forms that have to be filed to change the registration information?
If it is legal to do this I might order him a shorter 12" threaded barrel for use with flash hiders and such.
Does anyone have any experience involving such things?
 
If the barrel is less than 16", or the overall length is less than 26", you need to register it as a short-barreled rifle on a Form 1 first.

The maker also needs to engrave his / her name, city and state (or recognized abbreviations thereof) on the frame, receiver, or barrel.

Possession of an unregistered short-barreled rifle is a federal felony.
 
I thought if the barrel was <16" and there was NO STOCK then it was a pistol? Whereas WITH a stock it's an SBR so it depends if he wants to chop off the stock or not.*

*legal advice on internet, worth what you paid for it.
 
What type of weapon you have is determined when the manufacturer registers the receiver with the ATF. For a 10/22, that type is a rifle.

When you add a stock to a pistol, it becomes a rifle so long as the stock is attached. If the pistol still has a short barrel, it is a short barrelled rifle, subject to NFA regulation. As far as I can tell, it goes back from being a rifle to being a pistol if you take off the stock and long barrel. At least that seems to be the rule as far as US v Thompson Center is concerned. They won a lawsuit because they wanted to sell a pistol receiver with a long and short barrel and a rifle and pistol stock as one boxed item and the ATF wanted to call it an SBR.

Removing the shoulder stock from a rifle doenst make it into another type of gun unless doing so makes it less than 26" long. Sawing down the barrel to less than 16" makes it a short barreled rifle.

You cannot turn a rifle into a pistol. If you take a rifle and convert it into a recognizeable pistol (say turning an uzi "carbine" into an uzi "pistol") you are making an SBR.

You can turn either a pistol or rifle into a machine gun, just not legally anymore. Machine guns have no size restrictions for either overall or barrel length. You cannot turn a machine gun back into a rifle or a pistol. Even if you revert it back to its original state, it is always a machine gun by law.
 
haha see, to me that makes no sense, It's a pistol so why does it have to be registered as an SBR? I had a similar conversation with him regarding the fact that if he was caught with it and the registration has it listed as a rifle or carbine and it now has a 12" barrel and pistol grip that it wouldn't match up and become a federal issue. I am starting to get into gun laws, and I know about the 16" barrel and 27" minimum length for CARBINES, with stocks but what about taking a rifle and removing the buttstock and installing a shorter barrel?
I have read that if you are going to build an AR15 pistol that you need to use a pistol lower because a lot of lower recievers are registered for rifles and if you use a rifle lower to build a pistol it could be a federal offense, anybody else know more about this?
 
That's the rules, and you're right, on the surface it doesn't make sense. Adding a stock to a pistol makes it BIGGER and LESS CONCEALABLE, which from an over-controlling .gov standpoint would be a "good thing" no?

To find the reasons for this you have to go back to look at the original drafts for the '34 NFA.

Originally, ALL handguns were going to be NFA items, and the whole Short Barreled Rifle and Short Barreled Shotgun categories were created to close loopholes and keep the common people from cutting down rifles and shotguns to make "pistols".

Someone came to their senses and realized that there was no way that a complete pistol ban (for the sake of this argument, I call taxing something nearly out of existence a "ban") would fly, and it would get the NFA tabled for sure, so it was dropped, but the SBR and SBS portions remained. The fact that poachers and infamous criminals often liked sawed-off shotguns didn't help.
 
and I thought that a full auto converted rifle was simply done on a form 3, no?
They sure do have a lot of conversion parts available for AKs and ARs.
 
haha see, to me that makes no sense, It's a pistol so why does it have to be registered as an SBR? I had a similar conversation with him regarding the fact that if he was caught with it and the registration has it listed as a rifle or carbine and it now has a 12" barrel and pistol grip that it wouldn't match up and become a federal issue. I am starting to get into gun laws, and I know about the 16" barrel and 27" minimum length for CARBINES, with stocks but what about taking a rifle and removing the buttstock and installing a shorter barrel?
I have read that if you are going to build an AR15 pistol that you need to use a pistol lower because a lot of lower recievers are registered for rifles and if you use a rifle lower to build a pistol it could be a federal offense, anybody else know more about this?
 
Because the definition of rifle includes "a gun made from a rifle" and a short barreled rifle is a subset of rifles with certain length characteristics.

Lets see if I remember this correctly (note most definitions are rercursive)
MG- anything that fires >1 shot per trigger operation (and more depending on whether akins accelerrator ruling gets overturned), plus things that turn semiautos into MGs, plus semiautos that are easy to turn into MGs, plus things that are required for reactivating MGs (not the law but the ATF interprets it this way for M16 auto sears), plus certain weapon designs that are like semiauto designs that are easyto turn into MGs. Enormously complicated even without the scienter stuff that got added in 1994.
Shotgun- shoulder fired firearm for discharging shot or gun made from shotgun
Rifle- shoulder fired firearm or firearm made from rifle
Pistol- meant to be fired from one hand
SBR- rifle + measurement elements
SBS- shotgun + measurement elements
DD- weapon that takes explosive/grenade/mortar ammo, rifled weapon > .50 caliber (including pistols), non-shotgun weapons (not signal devices) > 50 calibers, shotguns that look scary
AOW- pistol without rifling, short barreled single shot combo guns like game getters, things that can be concealed and arent in the other categories like belt buckle pistols, cell phone guns, pen guns, wallet guns (but not holsters)

Note the incredible level of nuance here. Not all firearms are necessarily weapons, some are signaling devices. Some shotguns are smoothbore pistols, some are DDs, some are SBSs. Anything that is an MG is in no other category. If it wasnt for the 86 ban, nearly every SBS and SBR registration in the past 20 years would probably be an MG registration instead. Especially all those AR/AK SBRs.
 
All you need to know about MG forms:
Form 1- making
Form 3- transfer from dealer to dealer
Form 4- transfer from dealer to peasant (you and me)
Form 5- transfer from dealer to LEO/govt

Since 1986....
Form 1 is never approved for MGs. SOT2s dont need to file a Form 1 to make.
Form 3 is approved but SOTs need an LEO demo letter to get this approved unless it is a pre86 transferrable MG.
Form 4 is approved for pre 86 non-samples
Form 5 is approved all the time because the king's men get better weapons than everyone else
 
haha see, to me that makes no sense, It's a pistol so why does it have to be registered as an SBR? I had a similar conversation with him regarding the fact that if he was caught with it and the registration has it listed as a rifle or carbine and it now has a 12" barrel and pistol grip that it wouldn't match up and become a federal issue. I am starting to get into gun laws, and I know about the 16" barrel and 27" minimum length for CARBINES, with stocks but what about taking a rifle and removing the buttstock and installing a shorter barrel?
I have read that if you are going to build an AR15 pistol that you need to use a pistol lower because a lot of lower recievers are registered for rifles and if you use a rifle lower to build a pistol it could be a federal offense, anybody else know more about this?

THe receivers are registered as "rifles" or "pistols" by the manufacturer/builder. If you purchase a receiver only you'll have to refer to it as either a "rifle" or "pistol" on the form 4473 that the dealer keeps. Your friend has a 10/22 receiver which is officially a "rifle" in the eyes of the BATFE. If he has a barrel less than 16" in length attached and pistol grip only it will make no difference. The paperwork on the rifle says that the receiver is a rifle and he'll be up the legal creek. If he wants to make it into a pistol legally, he'll have to jump through the hoops to get it papered as a SBR. Then he can stick parts on it in any permutation he likes, except to FA parts. I'll finish by saying that yes, this is proof that the legal mind is inferior to all others in the critical faculty of common sense

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I agree, the legal mind is inferior in terms of common sense Beuracratic mumbo-jumbo is what I refer to it as. So he can technically still stay inside the law by keeping a pistol grip stock on it as long as it has a barrel length of at least 16"? He told me that he knows someone that can run him down a form 1 for making a SBS, is this normally how this is done? It seems so much easier in the movies when the hero cuts his shotty down with a hacksaw haha:D
 
Of course the price as building one from the ground up he could just buy something like this for a little bit more, basically the same concept, but more refined .
d7c7b363956a2c84ee61fd6800116cf1.jpg
Volquartsen Cheetah
 
Search is your friend:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=77357
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=45461

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