JRH6856
Member
I filed down the firing pin on one of my guns and it would only fire imploding bullets.
Conversion to auto fallacy or truth
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Those anti's are way off base anyway. Who cares how easy it is to make a full auto? It's illegal. And, as already mentioned, the BATF police the weapons that are 'easily' converted anyway. That's why they freaked out about 3d printers and AR-15's. Because it's 'easy' now. It doesn't matter, it's still illegal (to make and SELL without the proper stuff). Heck, it's easy with a cnc mill too.
It's easy to speed illegally in a car, because it's 'readily convertible' as well. Just step on the gas. A hammer is 'readily convertible' too, just hit someone with it. They are just trying to induce fear, and use ignorance, to further their agenda.
It's easy to speed illegally in a car, because it's 'readily convertible' as well. Just step on the gas. A hammer is 'readily convertible' too, just hit someone with it. They are just trying to induce fear, and use ignorance, to further their agenda.
Deanimator
Member
You can convert a Lee Enfield #1MkIII to full auto. It's been done.
I always tell people who've fallen for this anti-gun "fable", "Machineguns are like car engines. They have timing requirements. If your car's engine is out of time, it runs rough or not at all. If your machinegun is out of time, it fires out of battery (with the action open) and injures or kills you."
I always tell people who've fallen for this anti-gun "fable", "Machineguns are like car engines. They have timing requirements. If your car's engine is out of time, it runs rough or not at all. If your machinegun is out of time, it fires out of battery (with the action open) and injures or kills you."
barnbwt
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^ By trolling the internet boards 
The ATF has near despotic authority to determine what they feel is "easily convertable" (they almost got away with defining 8 manhours in their full-service shop as "easily convertable") and have used it to create very specific definitions (which can and do change at their whim) which gun builders use when making or remanufacturing semiautos. Gun makers must seek opinions (written, though not usually legally binding) from the ATF Technical Branch (the most reputable and competent sector of the ATF, from what I've been told) which they follow to ensure their gun build is legally constructed as a non-convertable semi-auto in the eyes of the ATF, so as to avoid possible prosecution (though the ATF ruling can still always be changed). Failure to do so opens you (and your customers) up to stuff like having all your Airsoft guns confiscated as being "readily convertable," and issuing recalls when your open-bolt SMGs are suddenly defined as machine guns.
The big one is that the gun must fire from a closed bolt, which means major mods to simple slam-fire machine pistols like Suomis and the like so they have actual firing pins and hammers. The second is to protect oneself from circumstantial illegal possession charges ("constructive possession" as it's known) by making the major parts of the gun non-inter-changeable with the illegal components. In the case of the Suomi, the bolt diameter is usually changed so that a full-auto bolt cannot simply be dropped in, and the trigger-group pocket is changed so standard FA parts can't fit. Also on that platform, the new (full legal length) barrel and shroud are turned to a different diameter so it cannot be quick-changed with an illegal short milsurp barrel. Which is a lot of work considering a hacksaw can accomplish the same thing in seconds, but is not considered "illegal possession of an SBR"
If it seems confusing, you need to read 1984 and Catch 22, then spend an evening watching Brazil--it'll all become clear, surely as black is white. Guns are mechanically the same as internal combustion engines. We have to build them so it is impossible for them to fire more than one cylinder, while still operating on the exact same mechanical principle as a dragster's. It is logically absurd to ban full-auto but not semi.
TCB
The ATF has near despotic authority to determine what they feel is "easily convertable" (they almost got away with defining 8 manhours in their full-service shop as "easily convertable") and have used it to create very specific definitions (which can and do change at their whim) which gun builders use when making or remanufacturing semiautos. Gun makers must seek opinions (written, though not usually legally binding) from the ATF Technical Branch (the most reputable and competent sector of the ATF, from what I've been told) which they follow to ensure their gun build is legally constructed as a non-convertable semi-auto in the eyes of the ATF, so as to avoid possible prosecution (though the ATF ruling can still always be changed). Failure to do so opens you (and your customers) up to stuff like having all your Airsoft guns confiscated as being "readily convertable," and issuing recalls when your open-bolt SMGs are suddenly defined as machine guns.
The big one is that the gun must fire from a closed bolt, which means major mods to simple slam-fire machine pistols like Suomis and the like so they have actual firing pins and hammers. The second is to protect oneself from circumstantial illegal possession charges ("constructive possession" as it's known) by making the major parts of the gun non-inter-changeable with the illegal components. In the case of the Suomi, the bolt diameter is usually changed so that a full-auto bolt cannot simply be dropped in, and the trigger-group pocket is changed so standard FA parts can't fit. Also on that platform, the new (full legal length) barrel and shroud are turned to a different diameter so it cannot be quick-changed with an illegal short milsurp barrel. Which is a lot of work considering a hacksaw can accomplish the same thing in seconds, but is not considered "illegal possession of an SBR"
If it seems confusing, you need to read 1984 and Catch 22, then spend an evening watching Brazil--it'll all become clear, surely as black is white. Guns are mechanically the same as internal combustion engines. We have to build them so it is impossible for them to fire more than one cylinder, while still operating on the exact same mechanical principle as a dragster's. It is logically absurd to ban full-auto but not semi.
TCB
Prince Yamato
Member
I think the 1000 lb gorilla in the room that nobody wants to bring up is, "Even if the guns in question were machine guns, what's the big deal about law-abiding citizens owning them?"
JRH6856
Member
Oklacoyotekiller
Member
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- 167
There have been more than a few saying you can turn an ar full auto buy sliding in the collapsable buttstock. This is the kind of missinformation that unknowing people eat up and spread as fact.
Carl N. Brown
Member
In the infamous ATF Gunwalking Scandal, the straw buyers Tucson and Phoenix ATF let walk with guns were quite open with confidential informants that they were taking them to a Tijuana workshop to have them converted to full auto.
Anti-gunners like to use the low figures of legal registered machineguns used in crime, but legally registered machineguns are largely in the hands of rich gun collectors, not likely to be used in crime.
Figures on illegal unregistered machine guns are harder to come by. The FBI UCR murder stats break down weapon by type show:
Murder in the United States - 2011
12,664 Total
68% 8,583 Firearm related
Of firearm homicides:
72% 6,220 Handguns
4% 323 Rifles
4% 356 Shotguns
20% 1,700 Unspecified
Anti-gunners like to use the low figures of legal registered machineguns used in crime, but legally registered machineguns are largely in the hands of rich gun collectors, not likely to be used in crime.
Figures on illegal unregistered machine guns are harder to come by. The FBI UCR murder stats break down weapon by type show:
Murder in the United States - 2011
12,664 Total
68% 8,583 Firearm related
Of firearm homicides:
72% 6,220 Handguns
4% 323 Rifles
4% 356 Shotguns
20% 1,700 Unspecified
'how is the BATF “policing” this purchase?'
That was said with a little sarcasm. The whole 'readily convertible' thing is plain stupid. Who cares if it's easily converted? So that means any machine that is easily able to 'do harm' needs to be illegal? Dumb. Just like those pistol grips that allow you to spray bullets from the hip, like Rambo, along with that shoulder thing that goes up. Those things should be illegal too..
And of course, as was brought up here already, the fact is that law abiding citizens should be able to have machine guns anyway. But oh yeah, those things are SCARY.
That was said with a little sarcasm. The whole 'readily convertible' thing is plain stupid. Who cares if it's easily converted? So that means any machine that is easily able to 'do harm' needs to be illegal? Dumb. Just like those pistol grips that allow you to spray bullets from the hip, like Rambo, along with that shoulder thing that goes up. Those things should be illegal too.
.And of course, as was brought up here already, the fact is that law abiding citizens should be able to have machine guns anyway. But oh yeah, those things are SCARY
.
JRH6856
Member
And they are especially scary when they are spraying imploding bullets.'how is the BATF “policing” this purchase?'
That was said with a little sarcasm. The whole 'readily convertible' thing is plain stupid. Who cares if it's easily converted? So that means any machine that is easily able to 'do harm' needs to be illegal? Dumb. Just like those pistol grips that allow you to spray bullets from the hip, like Rambo, along with that shoulder thing that goes up. Those things should be illegal too.
And of course, as was brought up here already, the fact is that law abiding citizens should be able to have machine guns anyway. But oh yeah, those things are SCARY
r1derbike
Member
Why would somebody take a perfectly legal semi-automatic AR (called Assault Rifle by the ignorant, uninformed leftists) and destroy its function?
So, you ruined the rifle by doing some stupid things and now it won't work. I'll give you 5 bucks for it, top offer.
So, you ruined the rifle by doing some stupid things and now it won't work. I'll give you 5 bucks for it, top offer.
Oklacoyotekiller
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Have shot full auto m16. Fun for first 2 mags. Then realized you cant hit crap on full auto. Just waste a bunch of ammo
barnbwt
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Goons in the US don't usually like the FA guns because they're even harder to hit stuff with when you aren't ever able to practice without running away from cops after five minutes
. Ammo costs aside, drive-bys and stuff have been committed with converted full autos, but the goal there is usually to just unload a gun's whole mag (however long that "volley" takes) and get the heck out of Dodge. Semi or full is close enough in that regard. And semi is far easier to use for assassinations and defense from other goons. Potentially draws less attention, too.But, when your criminal syndicate can operate with impunity due to a weak or corrupt police system...well, the psychological terror evoked by intimidating full auto weapons becomes very useful. I can see why the cartels would cherish such things, as it makes every act of theirs that much more of a warning to those who would stand up to them.
Again, though, conversion to full auto is by definition "not easy" if the gun being converted was legal to start with. While the validity of that definition is debatable, the legality is not. Hell, that one guy made a "registered machinegun" from a shoelace, for heaven's sake
TCB
Certaindeaf
member
You can make a molotov cocktail with a bottle of whiskey but that wouldn't be too smart.
Certaindeaf
member
Around ten years ago some Slavic country counterfeited many billions of dollars of bearer bonds, each with like a denomination of a half mil. they got caught just by a fluke/accident
Millwright
Member
Why "convert" ?
"Rolling Your Own" open bolt sub-gun isn't all that difficult for anyone with even modest manual skills. Can you dick with any semi-auto to make it "automatic" ? Sure ! But the "downside" (in terms of reliability and utility) generally out weighs the rpm increase.
IOW, a trained trigger finger is a far better "machine gun" than some cobbled parts. Just watch Jerry Miclick ! >MW
"Rolling Your Own" open bolt sub-gun isn't all that difficult for anyone with even modest manual skills. Can you dick with any semi-auto to make it "automatic" ? Sure ! But the "downside" (in terms of reliability and utility) generally out weighs the rpm increase.
IOW, a trained trigger finger is a far better "machine gun" than some cobbled parts. Just watch Jerry Miclick ! >MW
centurion20000
Member
I agree but for different reasons. Once you make mere possession of a semi-auto weapon a felony crime, it becomes that much easier to rationalize stepping up to full auto and explosive weapons to commit crimes. After all if you are going to jail for mere possession, you might as well make it count.
The first felony is expensive, the rest of them are free. Unintended Consequences at its best.
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