Convicted Felon? How do you know?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Owen Sparks

member
Joined
May 27, 2007
Messages
4,523
A couple of months ago I was talking about shotguns with a buddy at in the steam room at the gym. Some other guy over heard the conversation and joined in. Long story short, it turned out that I wanted to sell a particular shotgun and this guy wanted to buy one just like it. The next time I went to the gym I brought it with me and sold it to him in the parking lot. I really don’t know much about the man that I sold the shotgun to other than he is a regular at the gym and seems normal. Absolutely nothing has happened since then but I can't help but wonder what if he is a convicted felon and gets caught with it? Is it technically a crime to SELL a gun to a convicted fellon or is it only a crime if you KNOWINGLY sell a gun to a convicted fellon?

Or is it like don't ask, don't tell?

I have absolutly no way to know other than to ask (I didn't) and besides, even if I did he could lie and I would have no way to know the difference.

Just curious, OS
 
From the ATF website:
ATF Firearms Frequently Asked Questions
Unlicensed Persons Questions
Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
 
Next time transfer it through an FFL if you're going to lose sleep over it. There's nothing that says you have to do a private sale.
 
Seems that the laws are very favorable to felons in this respect. Provided the felon buys from a stranger, the seller will never have reasonable cause to believe that the buyer is prohibited from receiving.
 
Seems that the laws are very favorable to felons in this respect.

I suppose you could think of it that way, it does make it possible for a felon to be able to buy a gun. But if they really want one, how do you stop them? We've had a couple of high profile cases in this state where thieves just took guns out of police vehicles.. None of the crimes have ever been solved to my knowledge. It's a good point that even guns in official hands aren't secure from a determined crook.

But my view is the law is very favorable to the law-abiding citizen. He/she is not required to submit to government authority in making a typical everyday sale of private property. In that regard, the average gun owner is not unduly burdened in most places - certain states do step in and take away that freedom.
 
Exactly why THEY need to keep violent criminals in prison when they have them there!!!!!

It's a stupid system... "we will let violent offenders out of prison and hope they will be good - at the same time, we will prohibit peaceful citizen from protecting themselves (at the risk of becoming criminals), and claim that it must be this way because of the dangerous, violent offenders which we have put back into society" - our government
 
I suppose you could think of it that way, it does make it possible for a felon to be able to buy a gun. But if they really want one, how do you stop them?
You are quite right. You will never stop felons obtaining guns. In the UK, where there are no longer any legal handguns in private ownership AFAIK, felons seem still to be able to get them pretty easily. Restrictions probably just push up the price rather than decreasing the supply.
 
Next time transfer it through an FFL if you're going to lose sleep over it. There's nothing that says you have to do a private sale.
This is the LAST thing you want to do. Sure, the FFL holders want you to think this is the proper thing to do because they get paid to do transfers...and some charge outrageous rates for a simple 1 page document that they don't even fill out. But the truth is transfers done thru a FFL is merely helping the government collect their lists ... deleted --<Sam>

The fact of the matter is that the majority of criminals have their "networks" to buy illegal firearms from and rarely would risk buying a firearm from a guy at the gym who could-and probably would-finger them if the BATFE came calling. And for that matter, who is to say if a "felon" deserved to be charged with whatever crime he was charged with in the first place? I personally know a great guy who was the victim of a crooked system in a crooked (deleted) -- <Sam> state (Connecticut). Because of a "domestic violence" case he was arrested for, thanks to his psycho, vindictive ex wife, he can NEVER legally own a firearm ever again in any state...EVER!! And the fact is that he never laid a hand on her, but a cop "friend" of hers (who disliked this guy and wanted to be more than just her "friend") coached her on how to make the 911 call and what to report, and because of that, my friend will forever have to own his guns illegally. AND HE WILL DO JUST THAT!!! Now before you guys start jumping on the "he probably deserved it" bandwagon, I helped him set up a recording device after the fact in their home to record her phone conversations, bragging about the whole thing and how she got away with it (too complicated to go into as to why these taped phone calls couldn't be used in court to vindicate him), so I know first hand that the whole case was fabricated. I have known this guy all his life and all his friends, including yours truly, told him not to marry this girl because none of us trusted her, but he married her anyway, and the rest is history. Long story short, she wanted to get a divorce and move to Cali with their two young boys which she couldn't do without his permission...unless a restraining order was in place and charges were made (risk of injury to a minor, for one) to make him look like a wife beating criminal who was a danger to his kids. And amazingly that is just what happened!

Anyway, he lost his FFL (yes, he had an FFL for several years and a decent sporting goods business he had to sell because of the legal trouble) and his carry permit in one of the hardest states to get a carry license in-NY state-thanks to an equally vindictive (deleted) -- <Sam>District Attorney and Democrat ass kissing judge. My friend served proudly in the US Air Force for 8 years and was honorably discharged, was never arrested before this domestic case, and is the kind of guy I would let baby sit my two little girls without a second thought. He is college educated, a contributing member of society, and an all around great guy who is now labeled a "felon" and even worse a "woman beater" who never used a weapon against another human being...especially not his ex wife or kids and yet he is labeled unfit to own a firearm ever again in the United States of America.

So do all of us responsible, American gun owners a favor and don't fall into the trap of helping our anti-gun government via their little elves (FFL holders) collect their gun confiscation lists for their future plans of turning the US into a "safe" place.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I've never sold a firearm to anyone I haven't known. In fact all the firearms I've sold over the years were sold either to dealers, or CPL holders.
 
many court system have a computerized data base that is searchable, so you could do a quick search, but then you have to consider that you are opening a can of worms.
 
No, No, No

You give a fellow citizen the same respect they give you unless something requires otherwise.

How does your buyer know you didn't sell them a stolen cop-killer gun? See how they trusted you?
 
ShooterMcgavin...I wont argue with anyone that believes VIOLENT felons need to stay in lock down as long as possible.
Unfortunately a lot of state legislators are making up new felonies all the time that a few years ago would have been a misdemenor hardly worthy of much mention.
And too me at least this direction is rather scary as once one is branded a felon it is akin to the mark of Caine being placed upon your forehead.
So in a private sell I always ask the person if he/she is a felon or have a current situation that prohibits them from owning a firearm.
I then also ask for their drivers license for I.D. as well as current address.
And at that point I have done my part.
 
If you don't want to go through an FFL you can ask the purchaser to show you either a concealed-carry license or a voter registration card, as the prohibitions on concealed carry and on voting are the same as for firearm ownership in most states.
 
Unfortunately a lot of state legislators are making up new felonies all the time that a few years ago would have been a misdemenor hardly worthy of much mention.
Such as......?

Is this an excuse so sell drugs?
 
Drugs...WTH did that come from??
Here's an example and others can also cite numerous others.
Pouring motor oil on the ground in Texas is now a felony.
I wont argue that it's environmentally unfriendly but a felony??
Anyway as mentioned there are numerous other examples.
 
See, this is the problem with the current popularity of tattoos; it used to be easy to spot the criminals! ;)
 
How about the guy that said his son was in the weather balloon? stupid yes should he have to pay everything back yes buy a felony hardly.
 
How about the guy that said his son was in the weather balloon? stupid yes should he have to pay everything back yes buy a felony hardly.
I'm not one for the indiscriminate application of the felon label, but I don't think this guy has enough sense and good judgement to have a gun.
 
it's real simple, it's called "Don't ask don't tell". it's only illegal to KNOWINGLY sell a firearm to a felon. if you don't ask, you can't know unless they tell you, and if they tell you, take your toys and go home.


Disclaimer: I fully believe that the right to self defense with the most efficient means available were granted by nature, and can not be taken away, except by the bony hand of the grim reaper. If your idiolagy differs, listen to your gut, it's usually right.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojohn41
How about the guy that said his son was in the weather balloon? stupid yes should he have to pay everything back yes buy a felony hardly.

I'm not one for the indiscriminate application of the felon label, but I don't think this guy has enough sense and good judgement to have a gun.

yea but you can say that about half the population.
 
yeah but if you can't be trusted with a gun and you are over the age of 7 you can't be trusted without a custodian. more and more these days they are handing out felonies like they were detention slips
 
This is the LAST thing you want to do. Sure, the FFL holders want you to think this is the proper thing to do because they get paid to do transfers...and some charge outrageous rates for a simple 1 page document that they don't even fill out. But the truth is transfers done thru a FFL is merely helping the government collect their lists ... deleted --<Sam>

I never said I do that. But if the OP is going to be kept awake at night because he's fretting over this, he should just use an FFL.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top