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Copper fouling

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by ole farmerbuck, Mar 29, 2010.

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  1. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Member

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    I'm getting a bunch of copper fouling in my Savage 22-250. This pic was taken tonight after 25 shots. These were sierra bullets. I'm having the same trouble with Noslers too. All loaded at 38.0gr of H-380. Why am i getting so much fouling so soon?:fire:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Member

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    That is dark blue (phone pic). I used sweets?7.62.
     
  3. Beelzy

    Beelzy Member

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    Normal IMO, as you are driving a little bullet really fast in that gun.

    I would run a patch with Hoppes down the pipe and let it sit overnight.

    Sweets is good stuff but I wouldn't soak the bore O/N with it.
     
  4. Maj Dad

    Maj Dad Member

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    The 22-250 is a bore-fouling son of a gun. My brother in law must have used a 55 gal drum of copper solvents keeping his clean. Get some of the JB Bore Paste & Bore Shine, polish the crap out of your bore, and then just clean it after you shoot it. For sure don't leave the aggressive cleaners in over night - read the instructions & heed. I use Montana Extreme Copper Killer if I want to get it all out, otherwise, Hoppe's Bench Rest Copper Solvent does very well. The Montana Extreme was developed by 50 caliber (BMG) shooters with serious fouling issues, and believe me, it will get it out. Keep the fumes away from your eyes, and the stuff off your skin, though.
     
  5. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

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    If the bore if rusted or pitted, it will foul badly no matter what you do.

    First of all, you need to get the bore really clean. I would recommend Wipe Out. Apply it repeatedly and leave it in at least half an hour each time. It's OK to leave it in over night. If the bore is fouled badly, it might take a day or two of work to get it really clean. No brushing is necessary. Once it's really clean, it may not foul as before. If it still fouls badly, the problem is likely a problem with the bore such as throat erosion or pitting. After cleaning, the last coat of stuff I put in the bore is Prolix which seems to cut down of fouling.

    I've not found 22-250 barrels to foul any worse than the multiple other barrels I shoot.
     
  6. 918v

    918v Member

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    Also, just because your barrel is fouled don't mean it won't shoot. Is your accuracy degrading after 25 shots? Have you worked-up a load yet? Have you shot five 5-shot consecutive groups with it? If you have, try shooting a group or three after your initial 25 shots. See if the accuracy goes south.
     
  7. ants

    ants Member

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    Hey, Buck. By any chance, your cleaning rod isn't brass. Is it?
     
  8. Wildfire

    Wildfire Member

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    Looks Fine to me.

    Hey :
    I see nothing out of line about that..
    I did moly my own without the wax and almost eliminated that. But , I still see no harm done ..

    If it still shoots accurately it is fine. Some of my rifles like being slightly dirty. I have one in .223 that really wants to be very clean but that one is about it. the rest all shoot very well slightly dirty. :)
     
  9. Afy

    Afy Member

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    My Savage LPRV in .22-250 fouls like crazy as well. However I can get the fouling out using KG-12 easily.
    Look up KG 12, it makes every other solvent look like water by comparision.
     
  10. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Member

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    Nope, its a fiber rod. As i run more patches through it, they eventually turn white.
     
  11. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Member

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    I will try again today if i have time. I do know the other day i benched it and had it grouping good. Shot it about 15 times. Go to the p-dog town and well, i couldnt hit anything to speak of. Bring it back to the bench and they are hitting everywhere but the bullseye. I dont think its the shooter because i had my shooting partner in on this with me. He's a good shot and couldnt hit much either.
    I dont leave the sweets in very long, just long enough to run patches back and forth then a jag to finish cleaning.
    I have wipe out but when i tried it i didnt think much of it. I did it the way the lady on the phone instructed me.
    I know a gunsmith and my neighbor can shoot their 22-250's 100 times and not have the fouling i get. I cleaned my neighbor for him just to see. He had shot at least 60 times and i got NO sign of copper. I also have a Ruger with a heavey barrel and, well, i'd hate to say how little it used to get cleaned and never had trouble with it hitting anything. Guess i'll send it to Savage and have them check it out.
     
  12. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Member

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    Soooo, if i replace the barrel with a heavier barrel, what brand should i get? Any suggeations? I'm sure there are many choices and i have never done this but i am thinking about it.
     
  13. Afy

    Afy Member

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    Check the scope rings are on tight.
    How many rounds do you have through it?
     
  14. 243winxb

    243winxb Member

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    Change powder, get rid of H380
     
  15. Grumulkin

    Grumulkin Member

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    The powder you use has nothing to do with the fouling.

    I wouldn't go with a heavier barrel unless you wish to do stock work. I would go with whatever barrel Savage uses as they have a good reputation for accuracy. In fact, Savage barrels are some of the easier ones to change so if you have some mechanical aptitude you could probably do it yourself.
     
  16. _N4Z_

    _N4Z_ Member

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    I will second the motion given about KG-12.

    Nothing compares for removing copper, and I have used many different solvents.
     
  17. Werewolf

    Werewolf Member

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    Lots of good suggestion here about how to get rid of the copper fouling but not many on how to prevent it.

    What bullet are you using at what diameter (measured by you not what the mfg says). Have you slugged your barrel and measured the land and groove dimensions. If your barrel is on the small side of the nominal spec and the bullets you're using are on the high side of the nominal spec you will experience copper fouling sooner than what would be considered normal. Are you using FMJ or plated bullets? 22-250 can be loaded up to 4000 FPS and that will cause copper fouling quicker than loading them at 3750 or 3800 for example.

    Is the fouling thruout the barrel or just at the chamber end?

    Discover the root cause of the fouling and you'll know right off how to eliminate or reduce it.
     
  18. JDGray

    JDGray Member

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    Savages are accurate, but known to have rough barrels. Shillen, PacNor, will sell you a hand lapped match barrel for $300+:) A plastic brush, and jag are needed for using copper solvent, or you'll get false positives on your patch. If your handloading, maybe change it up, or try some good factory ammo.
     
  19. 308win

    308win Member

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    Two thoughts: 1) you said you finished with a jag, is it brass (I notice you are using a fiber cleaning rod I believe you said); 2) check your scope - see if it will shoot a square. I had a rifle that I could not get to group until I swaped scopes.
     
  20. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Member

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    I'm getting ready to post a couple of pics of targets so hold on, takes this old man a few mins. :)
     
  21. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Member

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    Ok, the first pic is from yesterday before we went pdog hunting. Even after shooting that good, i didnt get many with it. These are the 8208 powder not h380. Cleaned the barrel and the second pic shows what it was like tonight. I couldnt get a goup tonight at all so i put on a new scope. Well a used one with about 20 rounds with my AR. So i'm pretty sure it isnt the scope. I even laid the gun on its side and tapped the scope to see if anything changed. Then i got out some win 40 grain factory loads. What a messy target. Like 4 or 5 inch groups.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  22. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Member

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    When we got back from hunting, shooting 12 rounds, i couldnt get a group anywhere as goos as the second pic here. I think i'm sending it to Savage and let them mess with it. I load a lot of rifle shells and yes i know i'm not an expert but all my other guns will hold there own pretty well.
     
  23. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Member

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    I really doubt that will change anything. Been using it for many years with great results. The 8208 was doing good too but look at the pics now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
  24. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Member

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    Changed scopes. Same thing. hmm
     
  25. ole farmerbuck

    ole farmerbuck Member

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    How many shots before you loose accuracy?
     
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