Cop's 1911 vs. MRI Machine
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ArfinGreebly
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Wes Janson
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Very interesting...
I'm seriously impressed by the attention to detail shown by the author, both in specific details of the incident and in the trivial aspects. Informative, unbiased, and extremely well written. Nice!
I'm seriously impressed by the attention to detail shown by the author, both in specific details of the incident and in the trivial aspects. Informative, unbiased, and extremely well written. Nice!
waterhouse
Member
I wouldn't want to be the tech in charge when this happened. They probably just ramped it down, not fully quenched it, but it is still a costly process. My brother works with powerful magnets all day long and he certainly got a kick out of the link, thanks for posting.
They don't say exactly that but there are warning signs about the magnet. You can't get close to ours without knowing somethings up unless you are not to bright. We almost have to strip when going in that area to perform any work. We can keep our belt on, but you can feel it pulling on the buckle pretty good.
We have a fenced in area outside the brick wall where the MRI is to keep anybody from getting to close even though they are seperated by a wall. The magnets are indeed strong!
I don't know the exact details about shutting it down, but it is a big deal. It has its own special chiller to keep the magnet cool. One of the dangers of the gas is the tremendous exspansion that goes with warming up.
bamawrx
Member
There is one detail not provided in this story. I wanted to see the photo of the fired shell to see the imprint of the firing pin on the primer to verify this happened. It is also possible the magnetic field moved the internal anvil in the primer cap and caused a discharge. Either way this is a very interesting story and well produced.
If it was a discharge from a ferrous primer, then the rounds in the magazine would also have discharged.
I doubt that the field can act on the primer in such a localised specific manner.
In fact I just had a thought: are primers even ferrous? I just tested a sample of 20 assorted cases those primers are not attracted by a magnet.
I doubt that the field can act on the primer in such a localised specific manner.
In fact I just had a thought: are primers even ferrous? I just tested a sample of 20 assorted cases those primers are not attracted by a magnet.
10 Ring Tao
Member
Full text of referenced article:
http://radiology.rsnajnls.org/cgi/r...jkey=c2a2913e1aa09afe10222b363ec17d153d9a2197
Out of six various handguns, 2 (taurus and browning semiautos) discharged in the tests.
http://radiology.rsnajnls.org/cgi/r...jkey=c2a2913e1aa09afe10222b363ec17d153d9a2197
Out of six various handguns, 2 (taurus and browning semiautos) discharged in the tests.
Interesting stuff. I told my wife, who works as a nurse, about this story and she related an anecdote that happened to her just the other day. She was walking past the MRI suite and heard cries for help, so she ran in. Two MRI techs were holding onto a ventilator monitor (about the size of three video cassettes stacked on top of each other), which was being pulled through the air toward the machine. She grabbed onto it as well, and between the three of them they were able to pull it out of the room.
One thing about the 1991's discharge bothers me. If the gun uses a Series 80 firing pin block, then no forward motion should be able to disengage the firing pin block, nor would the block snap from a sudden stop--the sear or hammer hooks would break before that point. I'm wondering if the cop removed his firing pin block in an attempt to get a better trigger pull.
One thing about the 1991's discharge bothers me. If the gun uses a Series 80 firing pin block, then no forward motion should be able to disengage the firing pin block, nor would the block snap from a sudden stop--the sear or hammer hooks would break before that point. I'm wondering if the cop removed his firing pin block in an attempt to get a better trigger pull.
kd7nqb
Member
Interesting story good to know. I know a buddy of mine at work (private security) who cant work at one of our sites which is a medical building because the shratnel in his chest from Iraq hurts like heck when he walks near any of the MRI stuff. Kinda suprised a cop would not know that MRI are infact HUGE magnets.
seeker_two
Member
thexrayboy
Member
MRI machines can do some strange and unusual things. Word of this incident
quickly made the rounds in Radiology. For most of us it is a confirmation of what we already know. Absolute 100% control of all objects entering the magnet environment is critical. This type of thing could theoretically happen to a Glock type weapon. With no manual safety to prevent cycling of the action a full auto discharge is theoretically possible. It could turn a Model 17 into a Model 18. I work on the GE Signa 1.5t occasionally. It has a very strong field.
quickly made the rounds in Radiology. For most of us it is a confirmation of what we already know. Absolute 100% control of all objects entering the magnet environment is critical. This type of thing could theoretically happen to a Glock type weapon. With no manual safety to prevent cycling of the action a full auto discharge is theoretically possible. It could turn a Model 17 into a Model 18. I work on the GE Signa 1.5t occasionally. It has a very strong field.
You would think so, wouldn't you? But it happens all the time that they forget and need to be reminded before they go in, especially when they're escorting prisoners.
That's b/c the media don't hold much sway over the radiologists. They're about as objective as they come. Pediatricians & family docs tend to buy into the anti-gun stuff more and spew it out to their patients, especially those with kids.
Wes Janson
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I really doubt it. They seem to suspect it was the impact, not the magnetic field, that moved the firing pin forward. Even if the thumb safety hadn't been engaged, I strongly suspect that the holster it was in would have retarded the slide action sufficiently (or blocked it period) to keep it from cycling completely. Even an off-safe semi-auto unholstered dropped into one under the same circumstances wouldn't do it, I suspect, because of the friction of the weapon against the magnet housing. You'd get one discharge and then a partial cycle, and even if it did go all the way forward into battery, what would cause the firing pin to strike? In the example shown, the weapon was parallel to the walls of the unit; even if the pistol impacted muzzle-first, it seems unlikely that it would fire more than once. It might be theoretically possible, but it seems incredibly improbable.
I think it was jus a year or two ago some kid got killed in one of those things. I want to say it was in Houston. The tech allowed an oxygen bottle the kid was using next to the machine. It found the center of the bore and didn't stop for the kid.
A guy I know travels around the world building those rooms. He showed me a picture one time of him holding a pretty good size DeWalt drill by the cord while it was being pulled by the machine. It looked like the cord was a steel rod and not a flexible cord because the drill was suspended in mid air. The force was so great that the cord was exactly horizontal from his hand to the drill. Crazy pic.
"Hey Hillary! Check out my new MRI machine while I go get a box...er...case of nails!"
A guy I know travels around the world building those rooms. He showed me a picture one time of him holding a pretty good size DeWalt drill by the cord while it was being pulled by the machine. It looked like the cord was a steel rod and not a flexible cord because the drill was suspended in mid air. The force was so great that the cord was exactly horizontal from his hand to the drill. Crazy pic.
"Hey Hillary! Check out my new MRI machine while I go get a box...er...case of nails!"
zaijian
Member
Here's the real interesting question:
Was the bullet's trajectory affected by the magnet?
I propose we find an MRI machine a shoot a couple hundred rounds through the center of it.
Was the bullet's trajectory affected by the magnet?
I propose we find an MRI machine a shoot a couple hundred rounds through the center of it.
Roccobro
Member
For such a thorough and unbiased technical article about the incident, I'm suprised they didn't mention the presence of a FP mark on the shell.
The techs in the local regional medical center didn't say a word the last time I took a crook in for his MRI. Although they did point out to watch for the red "MAGNET IN USE" sign to light up and for me to stay behind glass when it was.
I guess I was lucky it didn't start with just ripping the badge off my shirt, then my gun from it's holster.
Justin
The techs in the local regional medical center didn't say a word the last time I took a crook in for his MRI. Although they did point out to watch for the red "MAGNET IN USE" sign to light up and for me to stay behind glass when it was.
I guess I was lucky it didn't start with just ripping the badge off my shirt, then my gun from it's holster.
Justin
swampgator
Member
tellner said:
Yep. Having over 12 screws, bolts, rods and connectors in me, I was more than a little nervous getting in the tube. Never had any problem.
Also for those that are curious most Coronary artery stents can be exposed to 1.5T within 6 months of implantation.
I recently posted on another board a question about safety features on the Colt 1911.
This is my post;
In a reference book i have, it list safety features on the Colt Gov,t. Model as follows;
Thumb safety, Grip safety, and "Rebounding" firering pin.
I have never seen that listed before.
Anyone???
I know that on old hinge action guns the fireing pin(s) retract upon opening the action, and its very important to "fully" hinge this action to reset them.
I also know that in action like the 870 Rem. the internal hammer stricks the fireing pin and inertia causes it to contact the primer. With the hammer holding against, the pin would not contact the primer.
I am wondering if there is a mistake in this reference as this list of featues is listed in a disctiption under a picture of the Colt 1911, and on this page is also pictured a Model 34 S&W (Beginer's Guide To Guns revised edition)(by Clair F. Rees)(page 121) I know that this style of revolver has what i refure to as a rebounding hammer with fireing pin attached. I am so confused lol
Gbro
This is my post;
In a reference book i have, it list safety features on the Colt Gov,t. Model as follows;
Thumb safety, Grip safety, and "Rebounding" firering pin.
I have never seen that listed before.
Anyone???
I know that on old hinge action guns the fireing pin(s) retract upon opening the action, and its very important to "fully" hinge this action to reset them.
I also know that in action like the 870 Rem. the internal hammer stricks the fireing pin and inertia causes it to contact the primer. With the hammer holding against, the pin would not contact the primer.
I am wondering if there is a mistake in this reference as this list of featues is listed in a disctiption under a picture of the Colt 1911, and on this page is also pictured a Model 34 S&W (Beginer's Guide To Guns revised edition)(by Clair F. Rees)(page 121) I know that this style of revolver has what i refure to as a rebounding hammer with fireing pin attached. I am so confused lol
Gbro
PAshooter
Member
No. Read the article. They even show a picture of the FP block in the pistol involved in the incident.
The theory is that the magnetic field pulled the block out of position, allowing the FP to move forward under inertia (helped along, perhaps, by the magnetic field) when the pistol struck the magnet.
Amazing article... both in content and construction. It's rare to find something objective related to firearms in the medical community.
I wonder how magnetic the pistol is after this incident, and whether or not it's reliability has been affected. The owner of the pistol might be well served by having someone disassemble and degauss it.
I wear a vintage automatic watch and run it under my degausser (from the 1980's -- made for TV's) every so often just for grins.
Steve
I wonder how magnetic the pistol is after this incident, and whether or not it's reliability has been affected. The owner of the pistol might be well served by having someone disassemble and degauss it.
I wear a vintage automatic watch and run it under my degausser (from the 1980's -- made for TV's) every so often just for grins.
Steve
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