Cops Raid Wrong Home, Taser Man
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jimpeel
Member
Trailer doors open OUTWARD so it must have taken them a while to get that sucker down. They're damned lucky there wasn't a wall of lead coming through it.
It is not beyond the realm of posi/probability that these people might not speak enough English to understand what was happening to them. In this case, it sounds like they did speak English but weren't very happy with the camo-clad clowns standing in their broken home.
Ex-Doc
LMAO!
That could be a line right out of South Park except it lacks "The b-----ds".
standingbear
Member
so who gets to pay for the familys counseling after being tramatized by this.its a bad thing that these things happen and it seems to be a trend to bust down the door,throw the occupants to the floor and taser them if they resist until things get sorted out.didnt they know what the suspect looked like or did they just "go for broke" sorry..no sympathy for these screw ups.
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justashooter
member
[crude comment deleted by moderator]
the incident in baltimore involved a group of ninja suited and ski masked cops trying to bust some drug dealers in a guy's store. store owner sees the gangsters (police without any identification and in their tough guy outfits) coming in with guns drawn and lays out 4 of them. there is a big coverup in which it is stated that the cops were in ninja, then uniform, then ninja with ident, then nothing else heard. no charges filed on the store owner.
the kick is that the [crude comment deleted by moderator] sting buyer decides she has to be in on the bust, and because she's some big time undercover, has to wear a mask. why not just stay home? what about all the other crown vic cowboys? why couldn't they wear uniforms and no ski masks. because it makes them feel like men to terrorise other people [crude comment deleted by moderator]
violence begets violence. sometimes it's even sanctioned.
the incident in baltimore involved a group of ninja suited and ski masked cops trying to bust some drug dealers in a guy's store. store owner sees the gangsters (police without any identification and in their tough guy outfits) coming in with guns drawn and lays out 4 of them. there is a big coverup in which it is stated that the cops were in ninja, then uniform, then ninja with ident, then nothing else heard. no charges filed on the store owner.
the kick is that the [crude comment deleted by moderator] sting buyer decides she has to be in on the bust, and because she's some big time undercover, has to wear a mask. why not just stay home? what about all the other crown vic cowboys? why couldn't they wear uniforms and no ski masks. because it makes them feel like men to terrorise other people [crude comment deleted by moderator]
violence begets violence. sometimes it's even sanctioned.
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TheeBadOne
Member
Nice talk, real nice...
Moparmike
Member
justashooter, some friendly advice: Edit your post or a mod will edit it for you. No offense, but people who use language on this board like that which is contained in your post get good threads shut down.
Stuff like this terrifies me.
Not the new ones. My mom's door opens to the inside. Her back door opens to the outside though...
Stuff like this terrifies me.
Pappy John
Member
Sounds to me like the Sanabria family needs to find a good noisy lawyer. "Hey kids, pack your bags. We're moving into a real house now!"
justashooter
member
my apologies to the delicate sensitivities of this board's clientel. i really am a rather nice fellow, and have been known to hold a higher standard with my demeanor when warranted.
bad cops are my one peeve (perhaps because there are so many). this forum is one of four i post on, and the acceptable language varies significantly by venue. the FAL files is my most used forum, and we tell it like it is, there.
colorful idioms often relate the level of dedication of a writer to the concepts tendered, and i am sorry to hear that those are not permitted here. if there is one thing i have been guilty of, it is to call it as i see it.
my assesment of the baltimore situation remains as i see it, even if nobody else does.
bad cops are my one peeve (perhaps because there are so many). this forum is one of four i post on, and the acceptable language varies significantly by venue. the FAL files is my most used forum, and we tell it like it is, there.
colorful idioms often relate the level of dedication of a writer to the concepts tendered, and i am sorry to hear that those are not permitted here. if there is one thing i have been guilty of, it is to call it as i see it.
my assesment of the baltimore situation remains as i see it, even if nobody else does.
TheeBadOne
Member
What is your definition of a "bad cop" ?
justashooter
member
let's see,
ones who give false testimony about matter of fact in a court to help their girlfriend arrange false prosecution of her husband, ones who harrass and threaten gun club members on their own club when they bump into an unauthorised night training thing the gun club never gave permission to run, ones who rape their wives during a nasty divorce, and have her followed by patrol cars in her neighborhood (stalking), want me to go on?
these things i have seen with my eye.
cops who are disrespectful of others, don't obey the law themselves, and work out their own issues on other people are dispicable. i have an ex who is a shrink, and some shrink friends, one of which specialised in cop psychology. you don't want to know the things he told me.
i have three family members who are police who have told me about the things they do. i can't repeat their stories, and don't hang with them by choice.
a little about me: 39 dwm, no rap, was single custodial father of 3 kids for 7 years, homeowner for 16, have been an aircraft p mechanic, work as a quality/welding engineer for a manufacturer of minerals grinding equipment and travel globally representing said, have shot all my life, own 50 or so guns, 100 or so at one time or another, ccw for 16, and am an all around nice guy living 40 miles north of the lovely "charm city" of baltimore in the commonwealth of pennsylvania.
do you think i could have an opinion?
ones who give false testimony about matter of fact in a court to help their girlfriend arrange false prosecution of her husband, ones who harrass and threaten gun club members on their own club when they bump into an unauthorised night training thing the gun club never gave permission to run, ones who rape their wives during a nasty divorce, and have her followed by patrol cars in her neighborhood (stalking), want me to go on?
these things i have seen with my eye.
cops who are disrespectful of others, don't obey the law themselves, and work out their own issues on other people are dispicable. i have an ex who is a shrink, and some shrink friends, one of which specialised in cop psychology. you don't want to know the things he told me.
i have three family members who are police who have told me about the things they do. i can't repeat their stories, and don't hang with them by choice.
a little about me: 39 dwm, no rap, was single custodial father of 3 kids for 7 years, homeowner for 16, have been an aircraft p mechanic, work as a quality/welding engineer for a manufacturer of minerals grinding equipment and travel globally representing said, have shot all my life, own 50 or so guns, 100 or so at one time or another, ccw for 16, and am an all around nice guy living 40 miles north of the lovely "charm city" of baltimore in the commonwealth of pennsylvania.
do you think i could have an opinion?
TheeBadOne
Member
Thank you for your reply. Now taking your reply in to account, were you insinuating in your earlier post that the cops involved in this incident are 'bad cops'?
justashooter
member
egotistical, at least, with poor self concepts, fresh from a training session that involved watching "die hard part 16", and some serious high-fiving.
ski masks on cops is not a good thing. ninja suits with no id on them are foolish. staging an incident of intended violence in a grocery is moronic.
perhaps these guys need some more training? you did see that the chick in california that shot the cuffed guy in the back of her car, and then told people she thought she was using her taser, is suing the manufacturer of the taser, claiming that it looks too much like her glock, and that they didn't train her well enough.
somehow i knew it would be somebody elses fault that she killed that cuffed guy locked in the back seat of her patrol car.
ski masks on cops is not a good thing. ninja suits with no id on them are foolish. staging an incident of intended violence in a grocery is moronic.
perhaps these guys need some more training? you did see that the chick in california that shot the cuffed guy in the back of her car, and then told people she thought she was using her taser, is suing the manufacturer of the taser, claiming that it looks too much like her glock, and that they didn't train her well enough.
somehow i knew it would be somebody elses fault that she killed that cuffed guy locked in the back seat of her patrol car.
Not trying to sound macho or anything like that. But if someone was kicking in my door at 3 am in the morning, I would respond by emptying my entire magazine of 308s into whoever it was.
Think about it. Your warm and snuggly in your PJs dreaming of girls jumping on trampolines, and then BOOM, someone kicks in your door shouting and shinning really bright surefire lights in your face, do you instantly focus on the bright lights and machine guns being pointed at you, or do you really think you can see the little "swat" name tags on their uniforms? Would your eyes be reeling from light overload that you automatically shoot at whatever is approaching you. I know I would. And I'd probably get killed.
Now the question is. If this was a no-knock to a wrong address (mine) and I end up killing a few of the swat officers without having 90+ bullets being pumped into my body (just say I got lucky). Would I be going off to the San Quentin for killing an LEO?
Think about it. Your warm and snuggly in your PJs dreaming of girls jumping on trampolines, and then BOOM, someone kicks in your door shouting and shinning really bright surefire lights in your face, do you instantly focus on the bright lights and machine guns being pointed at you, or do you really think you can see the little "swat" name tags on their uniforms? Would your eyes be reeling from light overload that you automatically shoot at whatever is approaching you. I know I would. And I'd probably get killed.
Now the question is. If this was a no-knock to a wrong address (mine) and I end up killing a few of the swat officers without having 90+ bullets being pumped into my body (just say I got lucky). Would I be going off to the San Quentin for killing an LEO?
Hehehe and this is a civil rights board?
Erm GMSD
Just a thought for ya. If "your boys" go through the door on the AVERAGE falfile user the citizen wont be the one outgunned Their 9mm machine pistols look cool in the Delta force movies you guys all seem to watch but i have a feeling 30 rounds of .308 coming through a homeowners door and your guys are suddenly gonna feel VERY VERY naked in their "level 3 cool looking ninjaesque designer body armor".
By im gonna be branded a cophater next ill bet
I have two close friends, one a cop, one ex.
Cousins a detective
Cousin in-laws a deputy
Sorta 2nd cousin was a sheriff
3rd cousin was a sheriff
his sons were deputies
But what the heck call me a cophater too and Damn! (i just wanted to get one of those cool lookin "moderated" messages in here.
Gotta love a civil rights board that censors its users lmao
Erm GMSD
Wait thats your DEFENSE of going in tactical?
Just a thought for ya. If "your boys" go through the door on the AVERAGE falfile user the citizen wont be the one outgunned
Their 9mm machine pistols look cool in the Delta force movies you guys all seem to watch but i have a feeling 30 rounds of .308 coming through a homeowners door and your guys are suddenly gonna feel VERY VERY naked in their "level 3 cool looking ninjaesque designer body armor".By im gonna be branded a cophater next ill bet
I have two close friends, one a cop, one ex.
Cousins a detective
Cousin in-laws a deputy
Sorta 2nd cousin was a sheriff
3rd cousin was a sheriff
his sons were deputies
But what the heck call me a cophater too
and Damn! (i just wanted to get one of those cool lookin "moderated" messages in here.Gotta love a civil rights board that censors its users lmao
Keith
Member
Not if I was on the jury.
Keith
justashooter
member
If "your boys" go through the door on the AVERAGE falfile user the citizen wont be the one outgunned
hey dude,
nice to see another believer in the power of suggestion ("buy an FAL, they shoot thru anything!").
civil rights are meaningless in today's world. nobody who has the power to protect them has had to pay the price for them, and thereby have adequate respect for their value.
free speach is a thing of the past, unless you do it on the farm with me. come on out, have a glass of the fruit wine i brought back from quebec, and say what you really think.
hey dude,
nice to see another believer in the power of suggestion ("buy an FAL, they shoot thru anything!").
civil rights are meaningless in today's world. nobody who has the power to protect them has had to pay the price for them, and thereby have adequate respect for their value.
free speach is a thing of the past, unless you do it on the farm with me. come on out, have a glass of the fruit wine i brought back from quebec, and say what you really think.
TheeBadOne
Member
Can you show me where in the article your found information indicating the officers involved were "egotistical"? Also, from what basis of knowledge do you make the comment that they used "Die Hard part 16" in their training? No source I've read mentioned the officers "high fiving".
Can you tell me your level of tactical training in dynamic entrys? Do you know what type of "masks" were worn? Were they nomex (fire retardent)? Were they used to conceal the identity of an undercover officer(s)? Were they for protection from chemical agents? From what basis do you claim the officers had no ID on their uniforms? We've all seen plenty of tactial teams outfitted with solid black, summer camo, winter camo, urban camo uniforms with ID on them.
Again, could you state your credentials (or is this just a personal opinion not based on any training/personal work experiance?).
Yes, and while it may be pathetic, how is it relevant? It occured several states away with a different agency and had nothing to do with this entry. Is this A + B thus Z? Or just a general accounting/run down of police screw ups, thus they are all bad?
Thank you for your time
Keith
Member
If an armed and masked man kicks down a door and gets shot... he was asking for it.
I would not convict anyone for shooting in such a circumstance - not even a violent felon who was legitimately targeted. I might vote for a conviction on gun possession or some lesser charge (if the guy was a felon), but I would never put someone in jail for defending themselves in such circumstances, no matter how many cops he killed.
These kinds of raids seem rooted in the idea that people don't have the right to defend their homes or even their lives. That these ninja's can just swoop in without uniforms and wearing masks, and then kill anyone who raises a hand to resist. It's insane - no, it's fascist! Law Enforcement needs to clearly identify themselves as law enforcement, period.
Keith
I would not convict anyone for shooting in such a circumstance - not even a violent felon who was legitimately targeted. I might vote for a conviction on gun possession or some lesser charge (if the guy was a felon), but I would never put someone in jail for defending themselves in such circumstances, no matter how many cops he killed.
These kinds of raids seem rooted in the idea that people don't have the right to defend their homes or even their lives. That these ninja's can just swoop in without uniforms and wearing masks, and then kill anyone who raises a hand to resist. It's insane - no, it's fascist! Law Enforcement needs to clearly identify themselves as law enforcement, period.
Keith
Well not at the risk of being called a "freak"....okay maybe a little bit of a "freak". But part of my SHTF gear is a FAL next to the bed, with a vest stuffed of 8 loaded FAL mags next to it. Along with a surefire and a Glock or two, and a Benelli M3 with buckshot in the closet for the Misses.
If the local swat team were busting in "Tyrone Gonzales gangbanger" house, yes they would definatley out gun the perp and his "gat". But seriously how many of us here have enough toys to match that of most swat teams. Plus how many of us here train more with those toys than your local LEO (maybe not swat). I know for myself, I train with the pistols at least once a week (thank God for reloads and surplus). And with the rifles every weekend I have free (which I admit isn't very many). Not to mention all the times I go paintballing (good teacher of tactics by the way).
I know for a fact I would start shooting if someone kicked my door down at 3 am. For those of us that believe that being a victim of a home invasion is statistically very low. I've had it happen to my wife's cousin. They broke in and tied up everyone and raped the daughter while having the mom cook for them. That was very very close in my book, and it made me a believer real quick of "it can happen to me".
If the local swat team were busting in "Tyrone Gonzales gangbanger" house, yes they would definatley out gun the perp and his "gat". But seriously how many of us here have enough toys to match that of most swat teams. Plus how many of us here train more with those toys than your local LEO (maybe not swat). I know for myself, I train with the pistols at least once a week (thank God for reloads and surplus). And with the rifles every weekend I have free (which I admit isn't very many). Not to mention all the times I go paintballing (good teacher of tactics by the way).
I know for a fact I would start shooting if someone kicked my door down at 3 am. For those of us that believe that being a victim of a home invasion is statistically very low. I've had it happen to my wife's cousin. They broke in and tied up everyone and raped the daughter while having the mom cook for them. That was very very close in my book, and it made me a believer real quick of "it can happen to me".
TheeBadOne
Member
Not much question who these guys are (armed and masked).
Keith
Member
Nope, those particular Ninja wannabe's are clearly identified.
Edited to add: After further thought - I'd be hard-put to convict someone who claimed they couldn't read those words on the ninja suits in the DARK, or couldn't understand what they were saying behind the masks.
I mean, really, I'd have difficulty with that "beyond a reasonable doubt" business.
Yet, if asked to convict a cop who shot someone "resisting" such a raid, it would be much easier to convict. The cop entered a home in the middle of the night. He was not clearly identified. He was behaving in a threatening manner...
People have the right to defend themselves. In a perfect world, law enforcement would have to accept the risk of getting shot when using such questionable tactics, or the risk of being imprisoned if they shot someone who resisted.
Keith
Edited to add: After further thought - I'd be hard-put to convict someone who claimed they couldn't read those words on the ninja suits in the DARK, or couldn't understand what they were saying behind the masks.
I mean, really, I'd have difficulty with that "beyond a reasonable doubt" business.
Yet, if asked to convict a cop who shot someone "resisting" such a raid, it would be much easier to convict. The cop entered a home in the middle of the night. He was not clearly identified. He was behaving in a threatening manner...
People have the right to defend themselves. In a perfect world, law enforcement would have to accept the risk of getting shot when using such questionable tactics, or the risk of being imprisoned if they shot someone who resisted.
Keith
TheeBadOne
Member
Could it be the Sheriffs Dept coming to visit?
TheeBadOne
Member
It's "The Man".
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