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Cosh's, slappers & black jacks...

Discussion in 'Non-Firearm Weapons' started by Boom-stick, Aug 14, 2006.

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  1. Boom-stick

    Boom-stick Member

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    Anyone had any first hand experience with these things, a friend has one of each and I've always doubted their effectiveness.

    I am I wrong to think such thoughts....
     
  2. AJ Dual

    AJ Dual member

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    After he died I went through my Grandfather's effects, one of the things I kept was a lead weighted leather slap. It's a double thickness paddle-shaped piece of rawhide, with a flattened egg-shaped lead weight in the end.

    When I found it, it was one of the things that made me chuckle, so I kept it.

    I gave myself a half-hearted slap on the thigh with it, and I can assure you, it is effective as designed. Too effective, if anything, since it's meant to be a non-lethal/less-than-lethal deterrent or device to subdue someone, but it would be easy to kill someone with a head strike.

    Probably illegal for carry in most all states without a permit under their various club and blackjack laws..
     
  3. 444

    444 Member

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    Yes
     
  4. tellner

    tellner member

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    "Brings the ones that don't usually come."
     
  5. usmccpl

    usmccpl Member

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    I carry my sap everywhere I go. Have used it twice. Its like a light switch,you apply force to the right spot and the lights go out.







    one shot one kill
     
  6. pete f

    pete f Member

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    I used to carry one when i bounced as the CCW laws were not in force then.

    There is very little that will stop a fight faster than a sap to the top of a shoulder or the side of the head. getting hit on the shoulder feels like when the linebacker got a clear shot to you without you seeing it coming, your whole arm goes numb.

    one to the side of the head just above the ear turns the lights out. just go easy, a full hard swing will kill the powerplant too.
     
  7. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    I train with a fellow who is a guard in max at a max security prison. He assures me that the old days when they could carry saps and blackjacks were much safer for officers. He claims that just a little tap could "quiet" a confrontation down and just a little more force could stop it cold.

    SouthNarc had a class on saps and blackjacks this weekend. Pitty I couldn't make it.
     
  8. bp_cowboy

    bp_cowboy Member

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    LOL

    This is rather humerous, because I remember my PaPaw carrying one of those around in his overalls pockets when he worked in the Railroad yard. Scary part was it was really worn.
     
  9. pedaldude

    pedaldude Member

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    any police still use these, I've also heard of ones that have a loop to put around your wrist and thumb so you can give someone what looks like an openhanded slap.

    are the gloves with lead shot in them effective too?
     
  10. LawDog

    LawDog Moderator Emeritus cum Laude

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    Most police departments forbid the use of saps, slaps and beavertails.

    Some smaller departments will turn a blind eye towards the carry of such, but you better check with a veteran.

    My first Sheriff actively encouraged the use of a lead slapper. Used properly, I have found that the wide slapper/beavertail is -- at its worst -- every bit as good as an expandable baton.

    At its best, a slapper is much more effective than the baton.

    Palm saps are sneaky little jewels. Mine was a disc of lead encased in leather about an inch, maybe an inch-and-a-bit in diametre. It was attached to a leather loop in such a way that the lead was held in the palm, with the loop across the back of the hand.

    An open-handed, jovial "hey-buddy-how-ya-doin'?" smack to the elbow, bicep, floating ribs or thigh caused a drunken redneck or three to reconsider their options.

    An open slap to the head or jaw would probably knock someone cold, but I never had to go that far.

    Sap gloves are bloody good in-fighting tools. They are both more versatile than a slapper, and at the same time, less versatile.

    While wearing sap gloves it is possible to use your hands to do other things -- grabbing a subject, applying handcuffs, dailing phone, etc.- while still keeping the weapon on paw, so to speak.

    However, having the lead shot spread across the back of you knuckles limits you to punches and backfist/backhand shots.

    Effective, but Sheriffs and Chiefs of Police tend to start developing heartburn upon seeing a vidcam shot on the evening news of one of their officers back-handing a critter, even if the critter really, really needed it.

    With a slapper, or palm sap, you can be a little more discrete and still get the job done without that nasty closed-fist punch, or back-of-the-hand pimp-slap that doesn't really look good on CNN.

    LawDog
     
  11. Car Knocker

    Car Knocker Member

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    The 2-way radio has taken its place - hang on to the antenna and slap someone upside the head or on the knee, it'll take the fight right outta them!
     
  12. HiWayMan

    HiWayMan Member

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    From TotalProtectionInteractive.com

    Quote:

    Default BLACKJACKS - They work
    Greetings Gentle Folk,

    I just received correspondence from a student of mine........

    But I won't tell you their name, location or even country (to protect the innocent).

    Let me even say.....this could be an entire fabrication (useful for court denial)

    Anyway....onto the "story".

    This person.......was on a family outing.

    When, out of the corner of his eye....... sees a couple of BIG fellas laying into his brother (words were exchange..."king hits" etc etc)

    Anyway. Seeing this, runs to his aid......drawing his blackjack.

    He hits the first guy in the back of the head.....base of the skull.

    Apparently, the guy just dropped like a puppet with it's strings suddenly cut (their words). So nitey night for this guy.

    The second assailant manages to score with a haymaker on the side of his head. But he manages to duck his chin into his shoulder, so only his ear cops the beating.

    The second assailant then closes in to "grapple".........my student creates space by pushing on the assailants neck with his elbow...creating space.

    He manages to lift the blackjack up and snaps it into the assailants teeth.....the distance travelled by the blackjack was only about 10 inches.

    The assailant immediately lets go; clasping his mouth with both hands.....

    This gives the opportunity for a "proper" shot to the side of the head.

    Lights out..........


    I relate this story because he had the choice between the blackjack or a tactical folder......

    The blackjack had immediate stopping power........no blood shed.

    The assailants were BIG......and have a "reputation" of being able to take hard shots to the head and just shake it off.

    I think if he went for the blade....a legal nightmare.....


    End Quote
     
  13. HiWayMan

    HiWayMan Member

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  14. jjohnson

    jjohnson Member

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    Leather Glove and a Roll of Pennies

    Yeah, I know, it's back to the thing about "is THAT a weapon?" or not.

    If you're not sure you should have a sap in your belt or pocket 'cause it's too hard to explain to the people where you work or whatever, a fairly effective tool can be made just by taking a leather glove and dropping a tube of coins down the middle finger. Or by dropping, say, one round of .45 ACP in the three bigger fingers. Snap THAT thing down on somebody's forearm or whatever... :what: OUCH. It's not exactly "concealed carry" but no point in escalating if you don't have to. Nobody ever asked me why I have a pair of cattleman's gloves tucked into my pocket, and hey, whatever you have stuck in the finger(s) just drops right out if you actually need the gloves.... :D
     
  15. Biker

    Biker Member

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    Not a bad idea jjohnson.:) In fact, I like it!

    Biker
     
  16. Fosbery

    Fosbery Member

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    Sock + cricket ball = :D
     
  17. 444

    444 Member

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    HiWayMan that is an interesting story.
    If he would have drawn the folder he would have escalated things from a fist fight to a lethal force encounter. So by hitting them both with a sap he basically saved their lives.
    Of course you could easily kill someone with a sap but it would certainly be a better option IMO than something that is an obvious level of excalation of force (stabbing them).
    I have never hit someone in the head with a sap, but if it works as well as everyone says it does, having an improvised sap might be a very good idea (from a legal standpoint).
    I became concerned years ago and got rid of my sap, which was a commercially made device.
     
  18. Boom-stick

    Boom-stick Member

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    Thanks for putting me staight on this guys.

    Whats the suggestion then, the flat one or the tube one ?
     
  19. Mac Attack

    Mac Attack Member

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    Just curious but what do you guys with experience with Blackjacks/Saps think is more effective a Blackjack or a Sap?
     
  20. JohnBT

    JohnBT Member

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    "Whats the suggestion then, the flat one or the tube one ?"

    My father has one of each and they both hurt.

    "I have never hit someone in the head with a sap"

    I have. It hurts like all get out. I was 4 or 5 and it didn't hurt all that much when I smacked my arm...sooooo.... :uhoh:

    John
     
  21. HiWayMan

    HiWayMan Member

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    The flat sap is probably the more versitile of the two. Besides being easier to conceal it will allow a strike with the flat which can range from stunning to instant KO, depending on place struck and size and weight of sap. The knife edge can be used to target large muscle groups ( thighs, biceps, pecs, etc) or it can be used to break bones (high force concentration over a small area).

    The round body blackjack has the ability to crush bones (hands, cranium, facial structure) with relative ease. The striking force of even a light BJ is greatly enhanced by the spring handle.

    Either one will do the job. But, and this can not be stressed enough, they are very serious business. You can alter someone's features permanently with a missed or overexuberant blow. They also carry the same legal ramifications as a firearm in deadly force situations, as well as being an instant felony in most states in the US for simple possession off your property.
     
  22. HiWayMan

    HiWayMan Member

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  23. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    :evil: Thought I remembered these from drafting classes long ago!

    Item 1400001 Add to Shopping Cart
    Dataprint Leather Paper Weight
    Dataprint Price: $8.95
    List Price: $16.75
    Your Savings: 46%

    [​IMG]

    Image shown for representation only. Actual style/color may vary.

    The Dataprint Leather Paper Weight is filled with 1 ½ lbs. of shot. Great for holding plans open for rev

    iew or for taping. Leather color may vary.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2006
  24. RyanM

    RyanM Member

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  25. Third_Rail

    Third_Rail Member

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    Aren't they pretty much illegal to carry in every state, regardless of CCW license?
     
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