cost to reload 12 gauge?

[justin22885]

i was just wondering if any of you reload 12 gauge? and i was wondering about how much you pay per shell to do so, say if you were to use once-fired hulls and load with cast lead slugs or 00 buckshot, how low do you believe you could get the cost per shell down to?

 

[Conservidave]

just guessing if you were casting your own slugs and buck shot and had the right hulls you could save over factory loads. Calculating your cost after that is pretty easy...primers, powder and wads.

 

[JimKirk]

Shotshell cost calculator....

http://www.ewrg.org/sscalc.html

 

[justin22885]

are wads 100% necessary?.. if you were casting your own slugs would you need the wads?

 

[JimKirk]

Wads are the "gas seal" of shotshells ... Yes you are going to need some type depending on what slug you cast/choose...

 

[justin22885]

even for rifled barrels firing plain slugs?.. and it seems wads would only add another .02 cents per shell

 

[Big JJ]

I reload everything except shotshells for the following reasons.
Dove and target loads are 25 cents a round including the tax at Walmart during season and they have never been out of stock.
My calculated cost is around 22 cents per round.
For the differance of 3 cents per round I can shoot factory loaded ammo without my labor or the of cost of loading equipment.
For me it is just not cost effective considering everything involved.
I do buy 1 box of high base pheasant round every year at at 40 to 50 cents a round.
The exemptions are these:
If you want a better round for say competion shooting the only way to do that is to load your own or pay a very high price for those type of rounds if you can get them.
In that case it would be very beneficial to reload your own rounds.

 

[snuffy]

Justin, you clearly don't know much about shotshell loading. The powder charge has to have something to push on/against to propel the load of any kind down the barrel. Here's where I was experimenting with a pumkin ball, .690 round ball load for my 870 slug gun;





The gray wad right next to the ball is called a "card" wad. It is a gas seal that is hard and stiff to give the powder something to push against. But in this case, I used it to simply take up space, because I also had a standard plastic trap wad above it for a secondary gas seal, The fiber card wad alone would have wrapped itself around the ball, the gas seal would have been lost. Normally in a shell with a round ball, you would use several soft filler/cushion wads on top of the card wad so it couldn't deform.

Now if you want to do sabots, then you need a way to roll crimp. Oh and the sabots of course.






That's a cheap harbor freight drill press with ballistic products roll crimper die and their hull vise.



That combo gives nice smooth roll crimps. But you must use new cases/hulls to do that, previously star crimped cases can't be roll crimped. Those sabots are/were the ballistic products 12/50 all in one sabot. It had a powder seal on the bottom, a cushion section and held a 50 cal bullet. It was a dismal failure because somebody screwed up on the blueprint for the internal dimension where the .50 bullet was held. The loose dimension meant there was little to no spin imparted to the bullet. If you used a .510 bullet, it worked, but no one nowhere makes .510 bullets. Why, because it's illegal for a citizen to have over 50 cal anything. Sure you can own a ma deuce 50 BMG, but a special license is required.

As for buckshot, again wads are required. Some sizes will fit inside a regular trap type wad in certain gauges and certain sizes. Buck has to be hand stacked--placed either in 2's 3's or 4's. Without a one piece plastic wad, you must do a stacked fiber wad column with the bottom/over powder wad being the gas seal. The fiber wads are all available at;

http://www.ballisticproducts.com/

You also can get hulls, slugs, buckshot and the roll crimper.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

Several years ago I did some pattern testing between Winchester AA trap loads and Winchester & Federal Walmart 100 round Value Pack loads. About 10 patterns for each, always 3 dr 1 1/8 oz #8.

I could not detect any difference in patterns between the cheapo shells and the AA.
If we fired enough patterns then the AA might prove to be better, but for 99% of us the Walmart Value Pack stuff works just fine.

If you want lighter loads than those full power Value Packs, then handloading might be a better deal. My buddy with the injured shoulder fires 7/8 oz loads at low velocity, they won't cycle my 11-87 so he does hand load for his O/U.

 

[PapaG]

It is almost a wash for trap loads to reload versus buying shells on sale. I just bought a flat of Gun Club 12 gauge for $58. Use the calculator and cost out reloads when primers are '$35/1000, wads $8.50/500, and shot is $38/25 pounds. Powder runs around $14/pound. Buy in bulk and save a little.
That said, I reload my slugs using the Lyman sabot moulds (both 12 and 20) and use "found" lead so the slugs are basically free, the wads are five cents, powder about the same and primer 3.5 cents for about fifteen cents each...but I've taken to buying new, unskived Fiocci hulls so just double the cost and I'm still way, way under the price of factory sabot loads and more accurate than any of my guns with Fosters.
(Savage 210, Savage 220)

 

[cfullgraf]

i was just wondering if any of you reload 12 gauge? and i was wondering about how much you pay per shell to do so, say if you were to use once-fired hulls and load with cast lead slugs or 00 buckshot, how low do you believe you could get the cost per shell down to?

These days, the main advantage to loading shot shells is loading something that is not available in the stores. The price of shot makes reloading shot shells expensive when compared to the "Gun Club" style ammunition.

If you reload shot shells, premium hulls (Winchester AA and Remington STS, etc) can be loaded more times than the economy stuff. Here is where some economy of reloading kicks in.

When I was shooting competition skeet, I would use new ammunition for the matches and then reload the hulls for practice. I'd buy shells by the case which also provides some economy.

Reclaimed shot can also provide some economy.

If you do not already have a shot shell reloading guide or two, I suggest you get one and read it. Shot shell reloading has some different requirements than metallic shell loading. Ignoring them can be hazardous to your health or the health of bystanders.

 

[justin22885]

i dont skeet, trap, or hunt with shotgun so my uses for it are dependent on its costs, if i could handload them dirt cheap i could find a place for them but at $0.46/each i could stockpile .308 ammo for that price and have more use for it.. i was just wanting to know if it was cheap enough to be worth it

 

[gamestalker]

Shot shell loading is not at all similar to metallic, in that, there is no development involved, no working up, and no tweaking. You locate published recipes, then load using the exact same components, charge, and shot weight or type. The only real exception, is there are less expensive generic wad substitutions available. But the specifics of the recipe must be adhered too.

The cost to load shot shell has been driven up by the cost of lead these days. Even reclaimed shot has become very expensive, so doing it cheaper than factory is of minimal financial benefit.

GS

 

[Paddy]

Shot shells and slugs are two different animals cost wise. Slugs are still 1$ea so I load my own. I don't load shot even though I have all the components and equipment simply because it's too cheap to buy them.

Question for those who roll crimp: why?
I star crimp all my slugs.

 

[justin22885]

do you really need to crimp any slugs?

 

[Paddy]

Yes, they will fall out otherwise. And shells are a certain length to be crimped. That's why it's easier for me to star crimp them up. Roll crimp would seem to have a higher chance of fouling up the case, the wad, or otherwise be less consistent than star, that just opens up.

 

[ReloaderFred]

The Lyman Shotshell Loading Manual has all kinds of information and recipes for loading slugs and buckshot. I load my own, but I also cast my own slugs (Lyman wasp waist) and buckshot, so the cost is minimal and the savings quite significant.

I also load my shot shells (7.5 shot), but I'm able to buy reclaimed shot that has been cleaned, tumbled, graphited and the steel shot removed for $25.00 per 25# bag, as long as I buy a ton at a time, which I do.

If you're not loading shot shells now, then there would also be the investment in a shot shell loader. You can spend as little as $50.00 for a used MEC 600 jr., or as much as well over $1,000.00 for a motor driven MEC 9000GN, which I have.

Shotgun loading isn't something you just jump into and expect to save money, but my equipment has paid for itself several times over since I purchased it. We do a lot of shooting, so we go through a lot of ammunition. The savings is in the volume, and being able to buy your components right.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[snuffy]

I just remembered I had this pic of my loads using the Lee "key drive slug".

You'd need to cast these Lee slugs yourself, or have me PIF you some to try out. You'd still need some sort of loader, I did not see where you said you already had a loader.



It uses a standard trap wad,(in this case a AA), HS^ powder, ww-209, a AA hull and a folded star crimp. They shot OK in my 870 slug gun, skeet barrel. They would do fine in a smooth bore slug BBL. or a fully rifled barrel.

Several years ago I did some pattern testing between Winchester AA trap loads and Winchester & Federal Walmart 100 round Value Pack loads. About 10 patterns for each, always 3 dr 1 1/8 oz #8.

I could not detect any difference in patterns between the cheapo shells and the AA.
If we fired enough patterns then the AA might prove to be better, but for 99% of us the Walmart Value Pack stuff works just fine.

Now take those cheap loads, try to break some clay targets. One of the main reasons they're cheaper than AA shells is the hardness of the shot pellets. The AA shells use high antimony "magnum" shot. The econo loads use plain old soft "chilled" shot. The soft shot will either deflect or flatten failing to break the clay bird. I'm surprised the patterns weren't much different. Usually the soft shot clumps together, creating holes in the pattern. Set up clay birds at 30 yards on a board or some sort of holder edge onto the shot charge, Then you'll see where some of the soft pellets fail to penetrate to edge. Those when hit while in the air and spinning will give off a bit of "smoke or dust", a miss!

Bottom line is; you can load shells as good as the top-of-the-line AA, STS and Federal gold medal right at home. And for less than what you'd pay at the store. It would require you to buy the magnum shot, either the shell makers first class wads, ot generic wads made by claybuster.

 

[Muddydogs]

Well your slugs probably would have shot better if you had a crimp on the hull and not just pushing in crimp. Never seen slugs loaded this way, very inconsistent powder ignition with what you have going on. Why don't you get the right wad or some felt spacers and get your slug raised up so the hull will crimp correctly.

OP. You really need to do some reading as it seems you have no clue as to what it takes to reload shotshells. Yes you need a wad and yes you need to crimp the hull. The wad is your gas seal and holds the powder in place, the crimp holds everything together and provides resistance when firing for consistent powder ignition. Light a match to loose powder and it burns, put powder in a sealed container at it goes boom. We want the boom.

 

[rsrocket1]

For loading buckshot and slugs the el cheapo Lee loader will work, but I would recommend finding a used Mec 600 jr for the same price or less. It will work perfectly fine for a loading a box or 2 at a sitting. I load for skeet/trap and typically go out to the garage and load 100 in about 15-20 minutes and just accumulate flats of loaded ammo then shoot it down. I use the same press to load buckshot and slug loads. I thought I would need a special wad and ultra slow powder, but what I already had works fine for these loads too. The high charges of slow powder are only needed if you really need fast (14-1500 fps) loads. 1200 was fine for me and the shots feel just like target loads.

I cast my own Lee 1 oz slug and simply place it in a Claybuster Lightning wad with 18g Red Dot into a Remington Gun Club Hull and crimp with an 8 point star crimp just like my target loads and it gives me a nice gentle 1200 fps out of my 1100. Doing so costs me about 13.4 cents each for the lead, powder and primer. I've tried heavy loads and just don't like the recoil so I keep the loads light and the accuracy is fine in my IC smoothbore barrel. I recently tried Titegroup and tried loads from 16-18g and 18g gave me almost identical MV's as the 18g Red Dot load with the slugs.

 

[AFK]

I reload for 12 and 20 gauge with the knowledge that I am not saving any money, but it is enjoyable. I will say that I can load a slightly better shell for the same money as the walmart stuff. Whether or not I am a good enough shooter to notice the difference between the two is another story. I also enjoy knowing that I have enough components on hand to get me through any possible shortages due to the current, and most likely near future, political climate. If you are going to reload for shotgun, and you shoot a semi auto, I would look in to a used MEC Sizemaster. I picked one up cheap on Ebay that only needed a good cleaning and adjustment. The sizemaster will resize the base of the hull to minimize feeding issues in semi-autos. The real savings in shotshell reloading can come in to play if you shoot a lot of the smaller gauges.

 

[gamestalker]

I here ya AFK, loading shot shells is lots of fun with a decent loader, and the 600 Jr. fills the bill just fine.

RSROCKET1, how were you able to load 4 boxes in 15 or 20 minutes with a 600 Jr.? Please share your secret, I'd just love to know how to load 400 shells per hour with a 600 Jr.. I've never been able to get better than 5 boxes per hour (125), and that's going as fast as what's physically possible.

GS

 

[rsrocket1]

Oops, sorry about leaving one thing out

Oops, I edited out that I own a Mec 9000GN progressive and with that, I do load up 4 boxes in about 15-20 minutes. When you load up the 9000, you get 1 shell per pull rather than needing 6 pulls per shell. I would not recommend loading for trap/skeet/clays unless you do a lot of shooting and can get your components in bulk. My loads cost about $3.30/box but it took about 200 boxes for the cost of the reloader to pay for itself (I got it used). I did that my first summer of shooting.

For buckshot and slug loads, I usually load one shell per rotation "turret style" since I'm usually satisfied with loading just 25 at a time and I want to make sure each shell comes out just right without any bulges and perfect crimps.

When doing that, a Mec 600jr is just as good.

 

[Muddydogs]

I like loading shot shells just to reload but I do buy component's in bulk and shoot a lot of reclaimed and dripped shot. Last year I shot 10000 12 gauge reloads at various clay targets. Most my bulk reloading is done on one of two Mec 9000, I also have 3 Mec 650's and a couple Mec 600jr's along with 2 Mec case conditioners.