Could a Revolver be considered a Semi auto?

[Gordon]

I think Uncle Ed was referring in jest to the "flywheel " effect that a large heavy cylinder D/A revolver that is honed to perfection can SEEM to have . The strings of rapid D/A fire the cylinder turning seems to drag along the trigger action . This is very hard on the cylinder locking bolts BTW. But very rapid fire is achieved by quick trigger action every shot , not multiple shots for a single pull.

 

[Gordon]

This thread needs more cowbell.

I mean, video.

Wow ! onto something there for sure, I think !

 

[jdc1244]

Semi-auto as in not full-auto; there are full-automatic handguns – revolvers are not ‘automatic,’ semi- or otherwise.

 

[BobWright]

The M1911A1 is a semi-automatic pistol. It uses the recoil force of firing to extract and eject the fired cartridge case, cock the action, and reload a fresh round into the chamber ready to fire the next shot or shots.

The Webley-Fosbery is an automatic revolver. It uses the recoil force to rotate the cylinder and cock the action for follow up shots. After firing the full loaded cylinder, ejection of fired cartridges must be done manually. The revolver, a top break, must be "broken" open and all cartridges ejected, then the cylinder reloaded.

The von Steiger revolver ejected the fired cartridges, but ejection was mechanical and not performed by recoil action. It was simply an auto ejecting revolver.

Bob Wright

 

[entropy]

For the doubters, straight from the horse's, um , mouth:

1. Semiautomatic pistol.Any repeating pistol which utilizes a portion of the energy of a firing cartridge to extract the fired cartridge case and chamber the next round, and which requires a separate pull of the trigger to fire each cartridge.
   
   
   1. Revolver.A projectile weapon, of the pistol type, having a breechloading chambered cylinder so arranged that the cocking of the hammer or movement of the trigger rotates it and brings the next cartridge in line with the barrel for firing.
      
      
   2. source:
2. https://regulations.atf.gov/478-11/2016-12100#478-11-p1048618300-a

Thus, from a purely technical view, the Webley-Fosbery is both a revolver, and a semiautomatic pistol.

BTW, this should also settle the argument as to whether revolvers are pistols, as some claim they not.

 

[shoobe01]

You're forgetting the Steyr GB..]

To me: no.

Steyr GB, HK P7, Walther CCP, and... I forget but likely others, are gas delayed. Still recoil operated, just delayed with gas pressure instead of a mechanical disadvantage system of some sort.

 

[bc38]

OK, to some of you this is pretty silly question but hear me out on this.. A semi automatic will fire a round every time you pull the trigger until the mag. is empty.. So does a revolver. Keep in mind the cylinder in nothing more than a magazine for the revolver.. A semi auto usually works using the gas generated by the burning power that activates the springs, buffers, bolt , and receiver to mechanically operate. The revolver does the same thing mechanically without the Gas. The Semi auto ejects the brass. Well the revolver does it also without throwing it on the ground by rotating the cylinder. You might say that a semi auto does all this on its own by just pulling the trigger! Well, isn't that all you do on a revolver? I had a revolver with a cylinder that holds 12 shots, many semi autos won't hold that many. So, could a revolver be a semi auto also?

I think you need a job, or 2nd, or 3rd job, preferably hard physical labor, so when your done your just wore out. Ya got too much time on your hands to think

 

[ontarget]

The fact is, with a SA or DA/SA revolver, you pull the trigger and it goes bang, and the process stops there until you pull the trigger or manually cock the hammer, advancing the next round. NOT a semi auto operation.

With a semi auto, you pull the trigger, it goes bang, THEN, automatically extracts, and ejects, the spent case, and loads the next, making the gun ready to fire again all with one pull of the trigger. Hence semi automatic. The process stops there or it would be an automatic, not semiautomatic.

With the revolver you do not get the fresh round in battery even though it is in A chamber,, until you put it there manually by cocking the hammer or pulling the trigger, a semi auto does place a fresh round in battery automatically but needs a pull of the trigger to fire.

 

[MedWheeler]

A semi-automatic clears and reloads its chamber after each shot. What it doesn't do automatically is fire any subsequent shots; the shooter has to do that.

A revolver does not clear or load any of its chambers after each shot. Each chamber must have been cleared and loaded manually by the shooter before fire begins.

 

[entropy]

A Webley- Fosbery does not have to clear 'the chamber' and extract a round to fire, (because it has 6 chambers) but it DOES use a portion of the energy of firing a cartridge to present another round for firing (long recoil, specifically) via a camming system that semi-automatically rotates the cylinder into position independent of the trigger's action, as well recocking the hammer (as on a 1911) in preparation for the next shot.
The confusion is caused by the words semiautomatic and automatic serving two different definitions: method of reloading, and method of firing related to trigger control.
BTW, it would be easy to make the Webley Fosbery fully automatic, but as mentioned upthread, surviving examples are not inexpensive, and tooling up a new one wouldn't be much cheaper, and a 'dealer's sample' would be an easily seen through ruse just to own one.
If MachIV Shooter ever makes one, I want to see the video.

 

[Mogas]

Well, all good arguments, BUUUUTTTT you still pull the trigger and get one shot with each gun until all the bullets are used up . So the difference is that a Semi auto is self cocking and loads automatically? Hmmm You win on the self cocking but not on the loading automatically. The revolver does that also by mechanically turning the cylinder. Hey, I looked up the definiton in webester... Seem good old webster is not clear on the differences either. This was an interesting conversation. Thanks

 

[Mogas]

A semi-automatic clears and reloads its chamber after each shot. What it doesn't do automatically is fire any subsequent shots; the shooter has to do that.

A revolver does not clear or load any of its chambers after each shot. Each chamber must have been cleared and loaded manually by the shooter before fire begins.

Seems the revolver cylinder serves two purposes. !st.. a chamber and 2nd a magazine. So when you pull the trigger the chamber/mag automatically turns and places a bullet ready to shoot . Seems the revolver clears the chamber by rotating and replacing the chamber with a fresh bullet automatically...

 

[fxvr5]

So the difference is that a Semi auto is self cocking and loads automatically? Hmmm You win on the self cocking but not on the loading automatically. The revolver does that also by mechanically turning the cylinder.

The revolver does not load automatically. The revolver chamber is loaded manually.

Seems the revolver clears the chamber by rotating and replacing the chamber with a fresh bullet automatically...

The revolver does not clear the chamber. The fired chamber is still full with a spent cartridge. A fresh round is rotated into place by aligning a different chamber with the barrel.

Seriously, your attempts at making them the same is getting silly and makes you look like you don't understand how these guns work. You can't just make crap up about them to fit a fantasy world where you want to make them the same, which you have done in the posts I quoted. Those are ridiculous posts. They aren't the same. Please stop before your reputation goes completely down the toilet.

 

[entropy]

The fact is, with a SA or DA/SA revolver, you pull the trigger and it goes bang, and the process stops there until you pull the trigger or manually cock the hammer, advancing the next round. NOT a semi auto operation.

With a semi auto, you pull the trigger, it goes bang, THEN, automatically extracts, and ejects, the spent case, and loads the next, making the gun ready to fire again all with one pull of the trigger. Hence semi automatic. The process stops there or it would be an automatic, not semiautomatic.

With the revolver you do not get the fresh round in battery even though it is in A chamber,, until you put it there manually by cocking the hammer or pulling the trigger, a semi auto does place a fresh round in battery automatically but needs a pull of the trigger to fire.

Watch Ian's video again, the slo-mo part.

A semi-automatic clears and reloads its chamber after each shot. What it doesn't do automatically is fire any subsequent shots; the shooter has to do that.

A revolver does not clear or load any of its chambers after each shot. Each chamber must have been cleared and loaded manually by the shooter before fire begins.

Watch Ian's video again, the slo-mo part.

Seems the revolver cylinder serves two purposes. !st.. a chamber and 2nd a magazine. So when you pull the trigger the chamber/mag automatically turns and places a bullet ready to shoot . Seems the revolver clears the chamber by rotating and replacing the chamber with a fresh bullet automatically...

No, all revolvers except the Webley-Fosbery need human input for those functions; either by the firer either cocking the hammer manually, or by pulling the trigger. With the Webley-Fosbery, as with the M1911, all the human input the gun needs is Cocking before the initial shot, pulling the trigger for each sequential shot, and resistance for the slide (Barrel/cylinder group in the Webley-Fosbery).

Once more, Ian, of Forgotten Weapons, slo-mo of firing the Webley Fosbery. (first 12 seconds of the video, and 6:48-6:58.)

 

[ontarget]

Seems the revolver cylinder serves two purposes. !st.. a chamber and 2nd a magazine. So when you pull the trigger the chamber/mag automatically turns and places a bullet ready to shoot . Seems the revolver clears the chamber by rotating and replacing the chamber with a fresh bullet automatically...

Except it doesn't clear the chamber and return a fresh round to battery AUTOMATICALLY.
This is accomplished MANUALLY by pulling the trigger or cocking the hammer.
(OK excepting the Webley Fosbury)

 

[Mogas]

The revolver does not load automatically. The revolver chamber is loaded manually.



The revolver does not clear the chamber. The fired chamber is still full with a spent cartridge. A fresh round is rotated into place by aligning a different chamber with the barrel.

Seriously, your attempts at making them the same is getting silly and makes you look like you don't understand how these guns work. You can't just make crap up about them to fit a fantasy world where you want to make them the same, which you have done in the posts I quoted. Those are ridiculous posts. They aren't the same. Please stop before your reputation goes completely down the toilet.

I started this thread to show the similarity between both weapons and not to stir controversy, just an exchange of thoughts on this subject. To have a fun conversation were we all can agree, disagree, learn etc.. With your response being so hostile, please block any further posts I happen to put on this forum.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

No more than a Gatling gun was a machine gun. It did not use the energy of the ammunition to operate, it was hand cranked.

 

[entropy]

The same operation as the Webley-Fosbery applies to the Mateba 6 Unica, with the addition of first shot DA. (and a more complex lockwork.)

 

[MedWheeler]

Mogas writes:

Seems the revolver clears the chamber by rotating and replacing the chamber with a fresh bullet automatically...

No, it doesn't. In fact, that doesn't even make sense. The chamber of a firearm is the portion in which a cartridge is located at the point in which it is fired. A revolver has multiple chambers; a semi-automatic pistol has only one (the 1911 Double notwithstanding.)

To fire a semi-automatic pistol a subsequent time, the chamber must be cleared and re-loaded. This is automatically done prior to that subsequent trigger pull. To fire a revolver a subsequent time, the entire chamber (still holding a spent case and, therefore, not "cleared") is moved out of the way and another, loaded chamber is moved into position in front of the firing pin. This is automatically done, also, but not until that subsequent trigger pull is begun.

Semi-automatic pistols place cartridges into a single chamber located in front of the firing pin. Revolvers move entire chambers in front of the firing pin. Remove the cylinder from a revolver, and it has no chamber left. Remove the magazine from a semi-automatic pistol, and its chamber remains.

(I am ignoring any discussion of the Webley-Fosbury because I do not believe the OP had it in mind when he initiated the discussion.)

 

[MedWheeler]

Incidentally, I've brought this up in air gun discussions. There are many air guns available marketed as "semi-automatics", but actually work on the same principle as revolvers, using disc-shaped "cylinders" to hold the pellets. These discs are rotated exactly as a revolver's cylinder is each time the trigger is pressed. Once a shot has been taken, no pellet is oriented behind the barrel until a subsequent shot is begun.

The Crosman 1077, modeled after the Ruger 10/22, is one such example. The Gamo PT-85 and PT-80 pistols are two others (I'm just naming these because they're the ones I own.)

The Daisy 5501 and the Gamo C15 "Bone Collector" are examples of magazine-fed air pistols that actually do operate like semi-automatic guns (though there are no spent cases to extract, of course.)

 

[LaneP]

Could a SA percussion revolver be converted to "semi-auto" by tying the trigger back? Then you would only need one actuation of the thumb to index and fire the next shot, continuing until I remove my thumb from the hammer or the cylinder (magazine) is exhausted. No empties to eject either

 

[Hartkopf]

Only an anti gunner would argue that a revolver is a semi auto. The same anti gunner that wants us to only own a single action revolver or a pump shot gun. (but just for warning shots in the air) Or single shot weapons with no magazines. OP you seem like a nice guy but the only people whole heartedly agreeing with you are anti gunners.

 

[entropy]

Could a SA percussion revolver be converted to "semi-auto" by tying the trigger back? Then you would only need one actuation of the thumb to index and fire the next shot, continuing until I remove my thumb from the hammer or the cylinder (magazine) is exhausted. No empties to eject either

View attachment 1047692

<Speaking softly so the ATF can't hear> A revolver with the trigger held back and 'fanned' could be construed as full auto, since more than one round is fired with each pull of the trigger. Obviously the ATF isn't too concerned with this.

 

[entropy]

Only an anti gunner would argue that a revolver is a semi auto. The same anti gunner that wants us to only own a single action revolver or a pump shot gun. (but just for warning shots in the air) Or single shot weapons with no magazines. OP you seem like a nice guy but the only people whole heartedly agreeing with you are anti gunners.

I don't think this is Mogas' intent; I believe he doesn't quite understand how revolvers and semiautomatics work. I suggest he read The Complete Illustrated Encyclopedia of the World's Firearms, by Ian V. Hogg.

 

[usaral63]

Best story I've ever heard relative to an auto revolver was a gunmag column detailing how a fella brought a single action colt in for repair. Seems his complaint was the the gun would fire uncontrollably and only in full auto............smith told him he was full of it and took the piece to his range to demo the proper handling. Gun went full and dumped six chambers...............seems the gun was missing the recoil shield and ignited primers were blowing out the rear, cocking and cycling that gun. Now I can't vouch for the truth of this tale, but primer assisted autoloaders were produced..........believe Garand tried the system...........guess if you'd couple that shield lack with a feed mechanism for that auto ejecting Ruger you'd enter the halls of the NFA.