counterbored Finn 28/30

[_N4Z_]

been made aware of a 1935 SKY SAKO m28/30.

it seems to be in good condition.

been counter bored at the muzzle about an inch. rifling looks fairly strong with a bore light.


would the counterbore be considered unusual on such a Finn?

 

[Win75]

Counterboring is common on Mosin-Nagant rifles, both Russian and Finn. It is an accuracy fix caused by cleaning the bore from the muzzle end with the steel cleaning rod.

 

[Ash]

It would be very rare (I have never seen one) on an M39 or Tikka 91/30. However, it is more encountered on 28/30's, 28's, and 27's (not common, though). They are pretty common of captured M91's, however.

The pre-M39's were the war-winners, doing the lion's share of combat when compared to the M39. They will have been shot the most and so are more likely to need counter-boring. However, remember that they were well-cared for, even during war. In Finland, even in desperate times, there is no difference between wartime emergency construction and peacetime. They did it right every time.

Remember, too, that the 28/30 was the most accurate Mosin ever made, as a model, prior to the TAK-85 more than 50 years later. Counter boring increased the accuracy, and on a rifle that already has a free-floated barrel, shimmed action, and modified two-stage trigger, you are likely to find accuracy to be excellent for a military rifle.

Ash

 

[_N4Z_]

Got to shoot the 28/30

I got to shoot it today.

PASS on the function check. Was easily able to hit my 12 x 6 gong @ 100 yards, first try. Didn't have time to shoot any groups though.

The owner threw a 275.00 pricetag @ me which I am contemplating. I think he would take less.

Metal appears to be in good shape. Stock is fair. Upper handguard cracked on an edge.

 

[Cosmoline]

The owner threw a 275.00 pricetag @ me which I am contemplating.

Ahh, CONTEMPLATING? You need to snatch that up.

 

[Ash]

Yeah, a 28/30 for the price of an M39, there should have been no contemplation. This was solely a Civil Guard rifle, which makes it rare already. Plus, it has some of the finest history of any service weapon, given the heroic defense of Finland the CG made prior to regulars coming forward. They were every bit the reality of our romantic notion of the Minute Man.

Ash

 

[KI.W.]

M28/30 is the best Mosin Nagant ever. Prices here in Finland $ 600-750.
M91Ukko-Pekka $ 825. :banghead:

 

[_N4Z_]

You guys can call me crazy, but it looks like I will be passing on the 28/30.

I had the chance to bring it home for up close and personal inspection.

Bore is good to go, though I didn't slug it for size. As stated the metal, that I can see, is in good shape. But I cannot get the thing taken down any further than removing the bolt. The front stock handguard is split and the rear band will not move more than an inch forward without hammering. I am not comfortable forcing the issue and breaking something that does not belong to me. Also, the screw on the rear stockband is stripped. Had to knock it out with a dead blow hammer. I did get the front handguard nose cap off and was able to pull up on the handguard just enough to confirm the aluminum sleeve which is supposed to be there, is not.

Now if I knew I could easily find a replacement stock for this rifle, I might still give it a go, but I don't know that.

These things, along with the ones I mentioned earlier, have prompted me to pass.

 

[Cosmoline]

I think you made a huge mistake. For one thing those bands were never supposed to be taken off except at the armory. They often have little clasps preventing anyone from unscrewing them. For another, not all 28's and 28-30's had sleeves. Finally, cracks in the handguard are not unusual esp. on those shot white hot killing Russians. The fact that this one has a crack and CB is a good indication of its service.

 

[Ash]

Oooooo, I hear a kicking oneself coming on. Or, you can pass the name on to me and I will buy it.

Ash

 

[_N4Z_]

Hmmmmm, OK I value these comments.

How am I supposed to check/clean these areas? I am used to being able to get to the underside of my M39's reciever and barrel. Can't happen with this rifle as far as I can tell. What if there is rust growing there. This rifle has been neglected for the past 8 years, sitting in a locker collecting much dust and who knows what else. This is one rifle of an inherited stash of beauties, belonging to an oblivious and disinterested individual. A Swede M38 with it in the same locker had green growing out of it's bore.


I would like to be able to get the reciever and such out, and your saying no?

Ahhhhhhh, what a pickle.

 

[Cosmoline]

For that price I would buy without an inspection of internals. In fact I know of few experienced sellers who will allow a rare surplus rifle to be taken apart by a prospective buyer. If the innards are like the other 28/30's I've had you can expect it to be rust free but coated with a black tar-like substance.

 

[Cosmoline]

Duplicate

 

[_N4Z_]

Well I've read alot of your stuff over the years (both of you), and appreciate the input.

Just pulled the thing back out of the safe to have another look.

Gonna take a couple pics and post them up directly so you guys can have a look.

 

[_N4Z_]

Pics

These are not very good. No sun right now.

 

[Cosmoline]

I would take that in a heartbeat! Looks intact and even has a nice dark stock. Stripped screws are easy enough to replace. I would not replace the handguard or the stock unless they are so bad as to be non-functional (snapped wrist) and even then there are fixes. That one went through the rough end of one of the roughest wars in human history, was re-serviced and sent back out to fight. Chances are it saw more action than all but a small handful of M1 Garands. It is a true piece of history. How often do you get a chance to own such a thing, let alone shoot it?

As far as getting the rear band off, I would suggest nothing stronger than some mineral oil as lubricant. That's worked well for me in the past, as long as the fit isn't too tight. What likely happened is it was fitted at the arsenal during the refit and the wood swelled up to make it tight. If the handguard split is in danger of spreading, I would suggest a strong wood glue to lock it down. I've used gorilla glue but it leaves a visible seam.

 

[Ash]

The 28/30 was a rifle for the Civil Guard, a private, volunteer army which was intended to go out and fight an invading force while the Finnish Army assembled and prepared for combat. These soldiers purchased their own weapons and fought so fiercely that part of Finland's truce with the USSR, in addition to allowing the Soviet Land Grab, they also had to disband the Civil Guard. When that happened, the CG's weapons were absorbed into the regular army, which is why you happen to have that rifle in your possession. During the Winter War, it was carried by a uniformed member of the militia not unlike our concept of the minute man. When the CG surrendered with the rest of Finland, unable to prevent the theft of land but still saving their country, they lost their arms.

In addition to being the zenith of Mosin design (other than a few sniper rifles), in addition to being used by Simo Häyhä, one of the greatest snipers of all time (iron sights only), the very personal history of each rifle is moving.

Ash

 

[_N4Z_]

More info on the rifle.

Slugged it after work today.
Groove - .3115
Bore - .3030

Going to the range tomorrow for some accuracy testing.
Will be using PRVI Partizan 185fmj's, and maybe some handloads.

Here are a couple more pics in daylight.

 

[Ash]

That is far nicer than I thought. You paid a very good price for a very rare rifle.

Ash

 

[savage25xtreme]

Ash and Cosmoline,

What do you think is a good price for this rifle if you were the oblivious and disinterested individual?

 

[Cosmoline]

I would think $350 to $400 at least on today's market. Inherent value is vastly higher though. More like $1,000. The market suffers from a lot of Mosin confusion though and few people understand the quality and significance of these early Finns.

If Hollywood makes a big budget flick about the Winter War, expect the value to go way, way up.

 

[savage25xtreme]

thanks for the info Cosmoline. That is my 28/30 N4Z is refering to.

 

[_N4Z_]

haha. the BEERRUN has found THR!

 

[savage25xtreme]

indeed... the internet is a wonderful thing

atleast now I know where to go for values of the rest of my locker

dont be hitting my 28/30 with no more hammers

 

[toivo]

When the CG surrendered with the rest of Finland, unable to prevent the theft of land but still saving their country, they lost their arms.

As an American of Finnish descent, I have to take exception to the use of the word "surrendered." The Finns negotiated a truce with the Russians that cost them a certain amount of territory but enabled them to keep the Finnish state intact and escape the Communist domination that plagued the rest of Eastern Europe for the next 50 years. If the war between Finland and Russia had continued, the Finns would have almost certainly lost, being so vastly outnumbered. However, the Soviets realized, based on the conduct of the war up to that point, how dearly they would have to pay for this rather small prize. They knew the Finns would have fought them to the very end, and they finally decided that it wasn't worth it.

Nice rifle! Does the asking price go up now that Cosmoline has let the cat out of the bag?