Counterbored Mosin-Nagants?

[TehK1w1]

I was looking at an M44 at a gun shop today, and the owner informed me that it had been counterbored. Why is this process done? It seems like it would decrease accuracy. Is this standard for milsurp rifles?

 

[Cosmoline]

The typical M-44 counterbore was done when the crown on the original bore wore out. It creates a new crown inside the barrel away from any pitting or wear at the old crown. In and of itself it does not hurt accuracy but it's usually a sign that the rifle went through the rough end. I believe some were also given fresh lands, which of course expands the diameter.

Some Mosins have very slight counterbores to protect the crown. The Poles for example did this.

 

[trueblue1776]

It improves accuracy of old, worn rifles.

 

[jpwilly]

It improves accuracy of old, worn rifles.

Yip and that's why I wouldn't want one. There's plenty around so pick up one with a good bore!

 

[fireflyfather]

or improves accuracy of a not very worn rifle that some peasant conscript f****d up the crown of with a cleaning rod. In other words, a counterbore can mean it was at the end of its service life, was fine except for a bad crown, or was near perfect, but sitting in with a pile of bad ones, and had it done to save the time of actually eyeballing it or testing it. Hell, for all you know, it was the rifle issued to the political officer who never fired a shot.

A counterbore in and of itself means very little, unless you're talking about a sniper, ex-sniper, or a Finn. Shine a light down the chamber, and inspect the bore. If it's shiny, with good rifling, and the internal crown is clean, there's no problem.

Don't listen to the counterbore snobs: Inspect the rifle itself before you buy it, instead of eliminating it simply on grounds of a non-issue. Besides, who buys an M-44 carbine as a target rifle?

 

[trueblue1776]

Who's being a snob? There is nothing wrong with a counter bore. It just means the gun has probably seen some hard times.

 

[JWarren]

A counterbore in and of itself means very little, unless you're talking about a sniper, ex-sniper, or a Finn.

I've got a Finn M28/30 that may end up with a counterbore. It looks like the rifling at the muzzle is a bit worn from a cleaning rod.

I'm going to eventually take it out and shoot it enough to get an idea of its accuracy. The rifling looks OK but not NIB condition.


Don't freak out about my not being opposed to counterboring this Finn. Before I got it, someone had already bubba'd it. It has been drilled and tapped, the rear sight ears were shaved, and the bolt handle bent. It has a Williams scope mount on it.


But the price was right.


--- John

 

[NC-Mike]

I've read somewhere that almost all M38 carbine were counter-bored when they were rearsenaled. It was SOP. I haven't seen a lot of M44 that were counter-bored. Most I see are not.

 

[Essex County]

I've been of the opinion that a bunch of M-N's were counterbored even if they didn't need too be.....Essex

 

[yesit'sloaded]

One of my m44s was counterbored and hits what I aim it at at 200 yards. I will verify firefly as the rifling looks great and about as shiny as it can be for shooting nothing but corrosive ammo for 60 years.

 

[Cosmoline]

JWarren--remember the 28/30 has a .3085" or so bore. Even if it has a "D" chamber stamp, it's still probably going to like the old pre-war Finnish loads better than the heavy ball or wider Russian ammo. Lapua still makes the match bullets for it. I'd suggest going over to the collector's forum for details. I am HIGHLY doubtful that a worn crown is going to hurt a 28/30's accuracy very much.

 

[JWarren]

Cosmoline,

Thanks for the tip. Mine does indeed have a "D" Stamp-- and wouldn't you know it-- I have 1,800 rounds of Bulgarian Heavy Ball for it. grrr.....


I'd like to see if I can't take a picture of the bore and rifling to post here. I'd appreciate it if you'd take a look.

When I got the gun, there was a light coat of rust IN the bore. I literally cleaned it for 7 hours with some noxious gun foam that warned that it would eat plastic parts.

After 7 hours of running patches through it I got clean patches. Being used to NIB rifles, the rifling looked a tad worn and the bore darker that I'd like to see. Frankly, I was dismayed.

However, a friend who is a gunsmith who also has a love of old Milsurps said that the rifling looked good and he expected it to be a good shooter.


I'd like to let you guys lay eyes on it to see what you think.


--- John