Couple of images
- Thread starter Oleg Volk
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I know you can't do anything about it now but I probably would have put her in pants, a shooting jacket and proper shoes for the range in the bottom photo. Alternatives would also include proper gear for the other sports mentioned.
I happen to agree with the top one very much BTW.
I happen to agree with the top one very much BTW.
I agree with the pants etc comment. But then again, what she's wearing in the picture is "everyday" attire for a girl her age. It makes her carrying a gun look less threatening.
Oleg, you're too darn tacticool.
Yup, that's criticism.
Think "organized shooting sports." Can you see ANY high school or 4H outfit in the fleepin' country using a buzzgun? If the picture was with an M1 or AR-15 variant, it'd have a LOT more credibility, as would a shotgun or a .22 with target sights.
As it is, all it has is shock value. Our materials have to have credibility first, so we can back up the thoughts/emotions provoked.
Other idea...
Picture of her with medals/ribbons... "I just beat all the old Marines!" (actually had a buncha the old CMP shooters get their butts handed to 'em at my home range by a 17 year old girl with a mousegun.)
Yup, that's criticism.
Think "organized shooting sports." Can you see ANY high school or 4H outfit in the fleepin' country using a buzzgun? If the picture was with an M1 or AR-15 variant, it'd have a LOT more credibility, as would a shotgun or a .22 with target sights.
As it is, all it has is shock value. Our materials have to have credibility first, so we can back up the thoughts/emotions provoked.
Other idea...
Picture of her with medals/ribbons... "I just beat all the old Marines!" (actually had a buncha the old CMP shooters get their butts handed to 'em at my home range by a 17 year old girl with a mousegun.)
I'll make the Marlin 60 version also -- but the target audience wouldn't know an MP5 semi clone from an AR15 from an M14...I want to firmly establish black guns as sporting, not just useful.
I enjoy your stuff Oleg. I'm not about to begin to criticize it because I don't have the technical ability or conceptual talent to even THINK about creating a piece and posting it here. I hope you can keep doing such as this for many years.
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Oleg: Great images!
A big smile (and a respectable target either in her hand, or as background) would also establish more of a "sporting" feel for it.
Neat jeans and casual leather shoes would indeed make it seem more of a safety conscious approach, too. OTOH, I will admit to wearing sandals to the range on occasion; the last time I did so, the bugs convinced me I was an idiot.
I like the choice of gun, though
That's one that can look plenty sporting; I think the AR-15 style gun at the moment is too specifically associated with the past x-many decades of American travel adventures. (The M4 and the M16 look "close enough" to each other that most people not into shooting would assume they're the same gun anyhow.)
timothy
A big smile (and a respectable target either in her hand, or as background) would also establish more of a "sporting" feel for it.
Neat jeans and casual leather shoes would indeed make it seem more of a safety conscious approach, too. OTOH, I will admit to wearing sandals to the range on occasion; the last time I did so, the bugs convinced me I was an idiot.
I like the choice of gun, though
That's one that can look plenty sporting; I think the AR-15 style gun at the moment is too specifically associated with the past x-many decades of American travel adventures. (The M4 and the M16 look "close enough" to each other that most people not into shooting would assume they're the same gun anyhow.)timothy
Even though I am new around here, I have been reading your site for years. Consider this post a pat on the back and another supporter.
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I didn't even think of the gun as ''non-sporting''. However, if you put a .22 schutzen out there with a big ajustable stock and a bipod that might even look more scary.
Props on the first image, don't change a thing.
But on the second one, THAT is standard attire for a 14 year old girl?!
Not to be offensive, but it looks nearly pornographic to me...
Maybe I am just used to chastity, but dang, if I caught any of my nieces wearing that...
Honestly Oleg, I think the girl in the bottom pic needs to have more skin covered, at least the thighs and shoulders.
But on the second one, THAT is standard attire for a 14 year old girl?!
Not to be offensive, but it looks nearly pornographic to me...
Maybe I am just used to chastity, but dang, if I caught any of my nieces wearing that...
Honestly Oleg, I think the girl in the bottom pic needs to have more skin covered, at least the thighs and shoulders.
That's how they dress. I'm neither condoning nor criticizing... but that's how girls dress these days and have been since I was that age nearly a decade ago.
Neo-Luddite
Member
I'd get rid of the flip-flops as unsafe for range use regardless of fashion.
The shorts? I'm lucky my girls are still < 5 I guess (problem defered a few years).
Great model--she looks like everybody's kid/niece/or neighbor. Her identity as a shooter in fact shines through--that mp5 clone looks oddly natural on her.
The shorts? I'm lucky my girls are still < 5 I guess (problem defered a few years).
Great model--she looks like everybody's kid/niece/or neighbor. Her identity as a shooter in fact shines through--that mp5 clone looks oddly natural on her.
Funny about the "skin" issue. Originally, I thought she was 10 or 11 (she's rather short and slightly built). The outfit seems on the modest and unpretentious side to me...and appropriate for hot summer weather.
She's not on the range, either, thus muffs around her neck and flip-flops. That shirt has no cleavage, so hot brass would not be an issue. She does have safety goggles.
She's not on the range, either, thus muffs around her neck and flip-flops. That shirt has no cleavage, so hot brass would not be an issue. She does have safety goggles.
My 2¢
I think that the two images carry two different messages, though they are somewhat related. The first makes the point that the arbitrarily government-imposed age restriction should be left up to the parent. The parent decides when their child is old enough to be left home alone. The parent should decide when their child should be armed. Since home protection is 24/7 in whatever clothes you find yourself wearing, clothing is not an issue.
The second is a means to safely educate in order to provide the desired result of the first image. The second image explicitly references sport shooting and comparisons to other sporting safety statistics. I think you have to judge it by, "is this how I would take my child to the range?" I would go with the appropriate protection from hot brass, etc. - cap, long sleeve shirt, shoes, and long pants in addition to the safety items already present.
She reminds me a lot of my daughter when we first went shooting. There is an additional component that strikes me (especially with the first image) that has to do with daughters more so than sons (or girls v. boys). I can't really put my finger on it but any father that's been wrapped around a little girls finger would understand. That paternal desire to make sure that they don't get hurt.
Top notch work, as always.
I think that the two images carry two different messages, though they are somewhat related. The first makes the point that the arbitrarily government-imposed age restriction should be left up to the parent. The parent decides when their child is old enough to be left home alone. The parent should decide when their child should be armed. Since home protection is 24/7 in whatever clothes you find yourself wearing, clothing is not an issue.
The second is a means to safely educate in order to provide the desired result of the first image. The second image explicitly references sport shooting and comparisons to other sporting safety statistics. I think you have to judge it by, "is this how I would take my child to the range?" I would go with the appropriate protection from hot brass, etc. - cap, long sleeve shirt, shoes, and long pants in addition to the safety items already present.
She reminds me a lot of my daughter when we first went shooting. There is an additional component that strikes me (especially with the first image) that has to do with daughters more so than sons (or girls v. boys). I can't really put my finger on it but any father that's been wrapped around a little girls finger would understand. That paternal desire to make sure that they don't get hurt.
Top notch work, as always.
I was a member of the 4-H shooting competition growing up so this is very personal to me. I am going to be crudly honest and hope you read this.
This campaign design gives anti-gun activists more ammunition to lash out with. Please dont use either one. Seriously it is a marketing nightmare as far as public relations and really looks like an anti-gun slogan than a pro-gun poster. Re-think what your endstate intentions really are (ie) getting parents involved with their kids and shooting sports; Shooters safety; or something regarding competition sports.
The rifles and clothing you choose are a complete reflection and carry many stigmas that gives an immediate response to the viewer and in this case it is not positive to most who will look at it. Even those of us who had our college educations paid for by varsity rifle scholarships and members of the US Military. The M16 look-a-like is not something that most parents have or would teach their kids in the 4-H to shoot with or compete. The portrayal of the young girl holding it is not appropriate or relevant for the situation of getting youngsters involved with the 4-H and shooting program.
The subject matter you are posting on the first poster is "interesting" but the child looks like she is in Brownies or maybe Girl Scouts so why would she have a loaded handgun? #1 home safety rule is keep firearms and handguns away from children. By all means this breaks that rule. Would you think that the 4-H safety program would endorse this? Would the NRA, YES program, or USA Shooting think the age and content of the pictures appropriate and responsible? As a member of all the above I have to say its a definite no.
I am not saying this has anything to do with the controversy of keeping a firearm in the home. I do not feel that these posters and ad campaign are not responsible and do not portray any gun owner or parent of shooting sports in a positive light.
You could do so much better to the 4-H and shooting sports in general if you would put some shooting clothes (Im not saying Kurt Thune competition leathers but at least pants and some sneakers), a realistic firearm for their age like a firearm that a father would take their child out to learn and teach gun safety with. As far as trying to get a program together to teach parents to give their children a loaded firearm and get them involved with the use of deadly force.... well the liberal democrates would just love that for the next anti-gun legislation. And yes every voter needs to take into account their personal actions and how it can effect everyone, even laws.
This campaign design gives anti-gun activists more ammunition to lash out with. Please dont use either one. Seriously it is a marketing nightmare as far as public relations and really looks like an anti-gun slogan than a pro-gun poster. Re-think what your endstate intentions really are (ie) getting parents involved with their kids and shooting sports; Shooters safety; or something regarding competition sports.
The rifles and clothing you choose are a complete reflection and carry many stigmas that gives an immediate response to the viewer and in this case it is not positive to most who will look at it. Even those of us who had our college educations paid for by varsity rifle scholarships and members of the US Military. The M16 look-a-like is not something that most parents have or would teach their kids in the 4-H to shoot with or compete. The portrayal of the young girl holding it is not appropriate or relevant for the situation of getting youngsters involved with the 4-H and shooting program.
The subject matter you are posting on the first poster is "interesting" but the child looks like she is in Brownies or maybe Girl Scouts so why would she have a loaded handgun? #1 home safety rule is keep firearms and handguns away from children. By all means this breaks that rule. Would you think that the 4-H safety program would endorse this? Would the NRA, YES program, or USA Shooting think the age and content of the pictures appropriate and responsible? As a member of all the above I have to say its a definite no.
I am not saying this has anything to do with the controversy of keeping a firearm in the home. I do not feel that these posters and ad campaign are not responsible and do not portray any gun owner or parent of shooting sports in a positive light.
You could do so much better to the 4-H and shooting sports in general if you would put some shooting clothes (Im not saying Kurt Thune competition leathers but at least pants and some sneakers), a realistic firearm for their age like a firearm that a father would take their child out to learn and teach gun safety with. As far as trying to get a program together to teach parents to give their children a loaded firearm and get them involved with the use of deadly force.... well the liberal democrates would just love that for the next anti-gun legislation. And yes every voter needs to take into account their personal actions and how it can effect everyone, even laws.
That's what kids wear these days. I disagree but that's what they wear. The target audience won't be so critical about what she's wearing. Oleg's point is to bring people ignorant of the gun culture to the gun culture.
Oleg, if I'm wrong, please correct me.
Oleg, if I'm wrong, please correct me.
Alphazulu6, I am going to have to respectfully disagree with nearly everything to do with your objection. The anti's will always have plenty of ammunition. What they don't have in substance, they will make up. We are fighting for constitutional rights that have been tread on to the point that most people wouldn't recognize the freedoms that the founding fathers intended that ALL of us have. I include the NRA in this group (I don't know the other organizations). I guess I fall into the OUR GREATEST ENEMY - PRO GUN WACKOS wing.
Cheers
Cheers
Alphazulu6,
I think both points should be covered -- tend to the existing stereotypes but also try to advocate more than we have now.
I think both points should be covered -- tend to the existing stereotypes but also try to advocate more than we have now.
I understand that kids wear nothing these days to school, mall, movies, around the house, dates, etc. This is a 4-H shooting sports ad poster not an Abercrombie or Dillards young ladies department advertisement.
The problem I am seeing alot is that the gun activists look negative to begin with and that scares those on the fence away. We pick on anti-gun legislators comments and poke and praud their statements. As protectors of the Constitution and 2nd Amendment it is our responsibility to filter those things we say and do publicly and on the web so that it is not misconstrued or used in a negative light. I am merely stating to be responsible. Just like 99.9% of the gun owners are.
The problem I am seeing alot is that the gun activists look negative to begin with and that scares those on the fence away. We pick on anti-gun legislators comments and poke and praud their statements. As protectors of the Constitution and 2nd Amendment it is our responsibility to filter those things we say and do publicly and on the web so that it is not misconstrued or used in a negative light. I am merely stating to be responsible. Just like 99.9% of the gun owners are.
Nice posters.
I have no problem with the attire on the first. It's better from a persuasive point of view to show someone who looks and is dressed exactly as expected for her age, etc. If she was in "proper" attire, it'd have an alienating effect.
Now weapon choice could be better. A kid holding any firearm is going to be shocking to antis anyway, the a MP5 is a bit much. Mayber a Walther G22 or "souped-up" Ruger 10/22? Or M4gery?
I have no problem with the attire on the first. It's better from a persuasive point of view to show someone who looks and is dressed exactly as expected for her age, etc. If she was in "proper" attire, it'd have an alienating effect.
Now weapon choice could be better. A kid holding any firearm is going to be shocking to antis anyway, the a MP5 is a bit much. Mayber a Walther G22 or "souped-up" Ruger 10/22? Or M4gery?
Gene Beasley, In regard to your comment of our constitutional rights and how we need to protect them; our rights to bear arms has become and really always has been a privledge. If you do something, commit a criminal act, or are underage, you are not allowed the right. We need to look at it as it is. It is something that we all enjoy. I have fought the fight against tyranny... a couple of times. I have seen the effects of an armed and unarmed population first hand and have closed with and destroyed the enemies of the United States. The ongoing arguement between liberal legislators and honest hard working conservative gun owners is not a clear cut battlefield and can only be won by taking a responsible approach to things.
Case in point. I was at a gun show in Denver with my wife. It will be the last one I will ever go to at that location. There were more rediculous, looney, racist, and outright shady individuals than I had ever imagined. Sure maybe I am being critical but this was the largest gun show in Colorado and took place at the local Expo. The people soliciting the skin head groups, multiple KKK booths selling posters and T-shirts promoting their organizations right next to the AK-47 booths with those wearing those T-Shirts. And of course the law-biding realistic gun vendorers, citizens, and such are right there and somehow have to put up with this behavior. I have been to this gun show when I am in the states since 2003. It has just gotten worse and I fear it is that way in the entire country. Yeah I have to tell you I am pretty sick of it. It seems that the socially inane folks will always be drawn to firearms like moths to a lightbulb. It is the responsibility of us to ensure that they do not rune our right as citizens. Ad campaigns are the same. We could do so much to help the shooting sports and promote safe gun handling with the new younger generation, or completely dissolve it and thus give the upperhand to the liberal loonies of the United States. With new legislation being proposed everyday to destroy the 2nd Amendment for those young people it is in our hands now.
I didnt just get back from fighting for this country, lobby for 2nd amendment rights all through highschool and college, and participate in shooting sports my ENTIRE life, to sit idly by and watch some rediculous, sometimes unintentional proproganda destroy and possibly forever mar the fibers of the 2nd Amendment. This country was made by people. So was the constitution. It is the peoples responsibility to ensure that it is protected and not slandered or destroyed. And that means people like you and me and Olegs posters. The audience is 4-H. Good luck.
Case in point. I was at a gun show in Denver with my wife. It will be the last one I will ever go to at that location. There were more rediculous, looney, racist, and outright shady individuals than I had ever imagined. Sure maybe I am being critical but this was the largest gun show in Colorado and took place at the local Expo. The people soliciting the skin head groups, multiple KKK booths selling posters and T-shirts promoting their organizations right next to the AK-47 booths with those wearing those T-Shirts. And of course the law-biding realistic gun vendorers, citizens, and such are right there and somehow have to put up with this behavior. I have been to this gun show when I am in the states since 2003. It has just gotten worse and I fear it is that way in the entire country. Yeah I have to tell you I am pretty sick of it. It seems that the socially inane folks will always be drawn to firearms like moths to a lightbulb. It is the responsibility of us to ensure that they do not rune our right as citizens. Ad campaigns are the same. We could do so much to help the shooting sports and promote safe gun handling with the new younger generation, or completely dissolve it and thus give the upperhand to the liberal loonies of the United States. With new legislation being proposed everyday to destroy the 2nd Amendment for those young people it is in our hands now.
I didnt just get back from fighting for this country, lobby for 2nd amendment rights all through highschool and college, and participate in shooting sports my ENTIRE life, to sit idly by and watch some rediculous, sometimes unintentional proproganda destroy and possibly forever mar the fibers of the 2nd Amendment. This country was made by people. So was the constitution. It is the peoples responsibility to ensure that it is protected and not slandered or destroyed. And that means people like you and me and Olegs posters. The audience is 4-H. Good luck.
The first image reminds me of the news stories I read a few years ago... it was out in PRK that the oldest daughter knew how to use a firearm to defend herself, but when she was home alone with her younger siblings, the guns were all locked in the safe. When the deranged nude guy with the pitchfork showed up and started killing, she was powerless to stop him. The cops got there and shot him dead, IIRC, but a lot of good it did most of those kids.
The second image... clothing aside, because that's already been beaten to death... for a message that deals with kids in the shooting sports, I think a double-barrel shotgun or Remington 521-T with aperture sights and M1907 sling is much more appropriate. A M1903, M1 Garand, M-14/M1A, or AR-15 (much as I don't care for the AR) would be just as appropriate if the kid were training to shoot service rifle matches. I agree that the buzzgun don't belong in this context. When my sister and I were learning to shoot, we didn't have service rifles much less buzzguns. We learned on the family huntin' guns.
The second image... clothing aside, because that's already been beaten to death... for a message that deals with kids in the shooting sports, I think a double-barrel shotgun or Remington 521-T with aperture sights and M1907 sling is much more appropriate. A M1903, M1 Garand, M-14/M1A, or AR-15 (much as I don't care for the AR) would be just as appropriate if the kid were training to shoot service rifle matches. I agree that the buzzgun don't belong in this context. When my sister and I were learning to shoot, we didn't have service rifles much less buzzguns. We learned on the family huntin' guns.
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