couple of questions to show off my ignorance

[btsyshsbnd]

looking through a handgun annual at the SAA's and was wondering what if anything was the difference between a .45 colt and a .45 long colt? Also saw an ad for a 1911 clone that said it was avalible in .45 acp and .45 smc now I know what a .45 acp is but what's a .45 smc and how is it different?
thanks.

 

[Brian Williams]

Do a search both here and in Google for "45 Long Colt"

There is a bunch of stuff on 45 Colt, Long Colt, Short Colt. The 45 Long colt and the 45 Colt are the same thing, but the short colt is similar but shorter to be similar to the 45 Schofield.

I have no idea what a 45smc is.


Also if anyone turns this into a "there ain't no 45 Long/Short Colt" type thread, it WILL BE CLOSED AND REMOVED

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[Phil DeGraves]

Colt designed the .45 Colt. S&W came out with their own version, the .45 Schofield which was dimensionally similar but shorter, like the 38 spl is to the 357 mag. Since both types of ammo were used in the military and were somewhat interchangeable, people started calling the Colt round the "Long Colt" to differentiate it from the Schofield round.
Haven't seen the .45 SMC. What clone offered a gun in that cartridge? Sounds like a proprietary cartridge to me.

 

[Eleven Mike]

Well Brian, you can close and remove now.

 

[dragongoddess]

.45 SMC = Short Magnum Cartridge.

go here for more info
www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8119

 

[Lone_Gunman]

If anyone ever sees one of these mythical 45 "Short Colt" rounds, I would love to see it.

 

[hankdatank1362]

Izzat like a WSM or a WSSM? I've never seen a .45 short magnum.

 

[btsyshsbnd]

thanks everyone for the info, know I know everything, just can't remember it all at one time.

 

[Josh Aston]

.45 SMC

Back when the .45 Super had some sort of popularity and Ace Custom .45s owned the name, they demanded royalties from people that sold the .45 Super. So rather than pay them royalties Triton Cartridge (I believe it was owned by Fernando Coelho at the time) came out with the .45 SMC. The SMC used a small primer pocket and slightly stronger brass.

 

[17RemFan]

Add to the list 45 GAP ammo http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/45gap.html

 

[MachIVshooter]

Add to the list 45 GAP ammo

Don't open this can. A search for .45 caliber cartridges is like looking up "Smith" in the white pages.

 

[unspellable]

45s

First came the 45 Colt.

Second came the 45 S&W or 45 Scofield. The 45 Colt was too long for the S&W frame of the time.

Third came the 45 Government. The 45 Schofield would allow only every other chamber to be loaded in the SAA due to the wide rim. The 45 Government worked in both at a slightly increased risk of getting the rim under the extractor in the S&W. This cartridge reached the civilian market where it was known as the 45 Short Colt. Old civilian cartridge boxes may be found bearing the designation of either 45 Government or 45 Short Colt.

Fourth came the 45 Revolver, also known as the 1909 Colt 45. It was intended for the New Service Model 1909 and had a wide rim like the Schofield while the case was just a tad longer than the 45 Colt.

Fifth came the 45 ACP for the Colt 1911.

Sixth came the 45 AR, a rimmed version of the 45 ACP for revolvers.

Seventh came the 454 Casull, today a slightly stretched version of the 45 Colt loaded to much higher pressures..

Eigth came the Winchester 45 Magnum, a streched version of the 45 ACP.

Ninth came the 45 GAP, a shortened version of the 45 ACP loaded to higher pressure..

Tenth came the 460 S&W, a still longer version of the 45 Colt loaded to very high pressures.

I leave out any proprietary 45s from small operations such as the 460 Rowland.

BTW: Within the last month or so I saw a box of 45 Short Colt by Fiocchi at a gun show. They may be still loading it.

 

[Eleven Mike]

You forgot the .458 Win. Magnum.

 

[unspellable]

458 Winchester

Didn't include the 458 Winchester since it derives from the 375 H&H and belongs to a different family. Since it uses the same diameter bullet, there might be some argument for placing it in the same family as the 45-70 and the 450 Marlin which is a 45-70 on steroids.

It's also a sterling example of why ad copy writers should not be allowed out unsupervised since it's not a magnum. A "magnum" is a cartridge with a powder capacity larger than standard for its class and the 458 Winchester has a powder capacity that's SMALLER than standard for its class. (I cannot think of any other big game 45 that doesn't have a larger capacity. In this context, "big game" is the sort that is liable to run over you, deer, antelope, and such are "buck".) It's small capacity derives from the original intention to use it in the standard length action of the Winchester Model 70.

 

[Eleven Mike]

I know, unspel. It would be pretty silly to include the .458, hence the raspberries and fingerwaving.

 

[MachIVshooter]

Unspellable:

What about the .451 Detonics? The .45 Super? The .455 Webley? .45 ACP short?

There are plenty more, but you get the point. If you're going to chronicle .45 cal. handgun cartridges, make sure you get them all.

 

[unspellable]

Other 45s

Eleven Mike, I didn't catch the icon and didn't realize you meant the 458 bit tongue in cheek.

The 455 Webley I would put in a different family. It's not really related except in that its distant ancester the 476 Eley is claimed by some to be the inspiration for the 45 Colt, but I have my doubts about that.

The 451 Detonics, et al, are the proprietary cartridges I said I was leaving out. I was trying to go straight down the line and not get off on too many minor side branches.

The 45 ACP ties in to the 45 Colt story as the military's original spec called for it to have the exact same bullet weight and velocity as the 45 Government/45 Short Colt, but that got changed by the time it was actually adopted by the military. That and now days some think the term "45 Short Colt" means the 45 ACP.

And of course there never was a "45 Long Colt" except as used as a nickname for the 45 Colt.

BTW: My vintage 45 Revolver/1909 Colt 45 cartridges will not chamber in my Ruger Blackhawk as the rims foul the ratchet. In my Uberti SAA clone they have an interference fit between rims in adjacent chambers and have to be shoved in. Don't have a Colt SAA to try.

 

[TonyB]

This is why I have a .46...it's just a LITTLE better than all those .45's

 

[condoor]

Word on the street is that Double Tap is going to start producing the .450 SMC again soon - mmmmmmm.

Currently the only commercially available 45 Super/450 SMC that I know of is from Buffalo Bore.