Caliber Question

[brokendreams]

I'm sort of new to the whole shooting thing. I am planning on purchasing my new Springfield XD 40 cal in OD green in a couple days.


My question is: What are the differences between calibers? What's the difference between a .45 GAP and a .45 ACP? Is there anything else in .40 besides a .40 S&W? I get the general rule oin the sizing (that's easy, I think): A .45 is basicaly .45 inches of bullet, correct? If I' wrong, I'm TOTALLY confused. The difference between a .357 MAG and a regular .357 (sig?) is the length of the brass, right?

Thanks all for the help. Even if it is a stupid question.

 

[Chupacabra]

Caliber is measured in tenths of an inch. So a .45 is almost half an inch in length. Often times though, the actual measurements are rounded up or down to make things easier. IIRC, the .45 ACP is actually slightly bigger than .45.

Take a look at www.ammoguide.com

You can compare the shapes and sizes of all the different handgun and rifle calibers. It will also give you standard performance stats on each round.

 

[mfree]

If this is gun#1, try and rent a .22 at the range before you go out the first time. You *will* develop a flinch from starting out with a "real" caliber, been there done that.

 

[Chupacabra]

Yeah, mfree is right. You may not want to start out with a .40S&W or a .45. To the unexperienced shooter they can be kind of harsh. Start with a .22 and work your way up.

 

[Yooper]

The caliber thing can be very confusing. It refers to bullet diameter, measured in thousandths of an inch.
The trouble starts when we try to distinguish between different cartridge loadings of the same bullet. A .38 Special and a .357 Magnum both use .357 diameter bullets. The .44 Special and .44 Magnum both use .429 diameter bullets. A 30-06 rifle uses a .308 bullet, and a .303 British uses a .312(!) bullet. Go over some of the loading manuals from various bullet makers. It may take some time, but you'll get used to it, we all did!

 

[brokendreams]

Nope. Been to the range 5 or 6 times. Started with a .22 (Ruger) moved on to a 9mm (ruger and glock) shot a .40 (Beretta Cougar and an HK, and a Glock, And the XD) shot a .45 (Sig p220---nice!). Love the .40 line of guns, and the XD was super nice and the price is right.


Thanks for the info guys!

 

[Mal H]

As for your specific questions:

What's the difference between a .45 GAP and a .45 ACP?

The .45 G.A.P. is similar in most respects to the .45 ACP, but the case is about .14" shorter and the brass is a little thicker. There are other subtle differences, but the most important one is the difference in case lengths.

Is there anything else in .40 besides a .40 S&W?

Yes, 10mm rounds are also .40". Most bullets can be used in either caliber, but the loads are quite different.

I get the general rule oin the sizing (that's easy, I think): A .45 is basicaly .45 inches of bullet, correct? If I' wrong, I'm TOTALLY confused.

Mostly true. The calibers numerical number is usually a good indicator of the bullet diameter, but not always. Examples are .222 Rem, .223 Rem, .22-250, 220 Swift - these all use bullets .224" in diameter. Other examples: 30-30, 300 Savage, .308 Win, 30-06 - all use bullets .308" in diameter.

The difference between a .357 MAG and a regular .357 (sig?) is the length of the brass, right?

Nope, that's only a small part of the differences between the two calibers. The .357 Mag uses a long straight walled case and the bullets are nominally .357" in diameter; the .357 SIG uses a shorter shouldered case (a necked down .40 S&W case) and the bullets are .355" in diameter. About the only similarity between the two is that they are both handgun ammunition.

 

[atek3]

Consider the intended purpose. the xd9 holds 15 rounds, the xd40 hods 12 rounds, and the XD45 holds 10 rounds.
For self defense I'd say the XD45, it makes big holes.
If you fancy competition like IPSC or IDPA, I really recommend the XD9.

atek3

edited to add: I have an XD40, which I love.

 

[brokendreams]

I was going for the .40 because I liked the snappiness of the recoil as opposed to the longer recoil of the .45 I shot. It allowed me to line up the next shot much faster.

The XD 40 is going to be my primary duty pistol at my job. I've talked to a few people that work with us, and Bantec (a major ATM safe company) officers use the XD 40 and they LOVE it. Cheap, Reliable, Powerful...

It's interesting to know that the 10mm and the .40 are mostly the same. Are the rounds interchangeable? I've heard that the 10mm is a surprisingly powerful round.

 

[Chupacabra]

It's interesting to know that the 10mm and the .40 are mostly the same. Are the rounds interchangeable? I've heard that the 10mm is a surprisingly powerful round.

No.

.40S&W rounds will not fit in a gun made for 10mm and vice versa. Well, the 40S&W might fit in the chamber of a 10mm auto, but it could blow up in your hand. Don't try it! And the 10mm is too big to chamber properly in a .40 gun.

And yes, the 10mm is pretty powerful.

 

[jc2]

It's interesting to know that the 10mm and the .40 are mostly the same. Are the rounds interchangeable? I've heard that the 10mm is a surprisingly powerful round.

I don't know about "almost the same." There is a big difference in case length. The .40 S&W is basically the 10mm improved for law enforcement use--it allows a more ergonomic (at least a smaller grip), lighter pistol and improves controllability.

The rounds are not interchangable (expcept in the S&W 610 revolver). FWIW, most 10mm ammunition is loaded with bullets designed for the .40 S&W which could conceivably cause some performance problems (but since the 10mm is not really considered a LE round, it's ammo is generally just not tested like that of the .40 S&W).

The 10mm is the most powerful autoloader round--basically with its hottest loads the 10mm delivers the same level of power as the .357 Magnum revolver with its hottest loads.

 

[Mal H]

As the two above stated, 10mm and .40 S&W are not mostly the same. I wasn't as clear as I could have been when I said the "loads are quite different" in that the 10mm case is longer than the .40 S&W. The rounds are not interchangeable and loading data is not interchangeable.

 

[Jim Watson]

The problem with caliber and cartridge designations is that they are about 25% based on measurements and about 75% based on advertising. There are several naming systems consistent within themselves but having nothing to do with the next system.
All you can do is to read the ammo company catalogs for the new stuff and Cartridges of the World for the old and memorize.

 

[brokendreams]

Thanks for the info!


Now, on top of all that, what are the different types of bullet? Full Metal jacket I know, Hollowpoint I know... Partial jacket, stuff like that. What is ball ammo? If I can't use Hollowpoints, don't weant to foul my barrel, and want a good self-defense round in .40 cal, which should I shoot? Buy a bunch and shoot 'em all?

 

[Jim Watson]

Ball ammo is full jacketed military type ammunition. The name goes back to muzzleloader days when the bullet WAS a round ball. Now it is mostly a quick way to differentiate solid FMJ ammuntion from hollowpoint, armor piercing, tracer, etc, etc.

Why would you not be able to use hollowpoints?
If for some real reason (company policy, maybe?) you can't, Cor Bon makes the Pow R Ball bullet and Federal the Expanding Full Metal Jacket. They are designed to expand on impact without having a visible hollow or any lead exposed.
If you are not allowed to use ANY expanding bullet, you are pretty well stuck with FMJ. Nearly all .40 bullets are rather flat pointed and one would be about as good as another.

 

[Chupacabra]

If I can't use Hollowpoints, don't weant to foul my barrel, and want a good self-defense round in .40 cal, which should I shoot? Buy a bunch and shoot 'em all?

Yeah, why wouldn't you be able to use hollowpoints???

I guess you could use any brand FMJ, as long as it functions properly in your pistol. I use Sellier & Bellot 180grain FMJs for target practice and never had a problem with it. Most of the bigger name ammo producers make good stuff. Stay away from reloads though.

 

[brokendreams]

can't use HollowPoints because of company policies.

Also, what is a +P round and +p+ and stuff? Do they fire hotter or faster or have more than the recomended powder?

 

[Feanaro]

+P ammunition has increased pressure maximums. +P+ is extra extra high pressured. To contrast, a Buffalo Bore +P+ .44 Magnum load uses a 340 gr. bullet flying at 1478 fps. A regular Remington Core-Lokt .44 Magnum load has a 275 bullet which flys at 1235 FPS.

 

[MrMurphy]

You need to find a new company. Seriously.


FMJ's make a hole in someone and keep going. They can hit people other than your target by blowing through. JHPs also have better stopping power as they expend all the energy in the target. Even the NYPD many years after everyone else went JHP finally switched cause they were shooting through bad guys and hitting innocent people like every other shooting.

This can get you and your company sued, and possibly you killed if you have to drop the hammer on someone and hit them fifteen times before they go down cause you're using FMJ's.

 

[jc2]

This can get you and your company sued, and possibly you killed if you have to drop the hammer on someone and hit them fifteen times before they go down cause you're using FMJ's.

You exagerrate somewhat! While there is no doubt that as a whole a current generation premium JHP is better than a FMJ, the differences (and consequences) are not as great as stated--and JHPs can fail as well. Being limited to FMJs is not a death penalty or an invitation to a lawsuit as implied. Placement still trumps all other variables!

Frankly, if I were limited to FMJs I wouldn't be real happy, but I wouldn't view it as the end of the world--particularly if I had the option of choosing my weapon and calibre. If I were limited to FMJs, I would stick with the .45 ACP--it is relatively big, slow-moving bullet that has a good reputation/history of performance with FMJs. It also tends to stay in the body (and/or lose most of its velocity/energy in the body).

 

[Skirmisher]

The Federal EFMJ ammo was designed for departments that were not allowed to use hollow points, such as NJ. FBI ballistics reports are very good. Carry then in my carry guns.

 

[MrMurphy]

I've seen people get shot and killed or wounded with both FMJs and JHPs. For his intended role, yes, it is highly stupid of them to only authorize FMJs. The over penetration factor IS an issue. I've seen a 9mm go through a man's leg, car seat, bottom of his car and a foot into the ground. That was FMJ. I've also seen another go through the guy (killing him, three center hits) and through two house walls (exterior wall and one interior it stopped in).

 

[brokendreams]

Interesting to know.

I may just carry JHP and not tell anyone

 

[Jim Watson]

Why?
Do what we tell you and get some Cor Bon Pow R Ball or Federal EFMJ.

EFMJ .40 available from
ammoman.com

PowRBall .40 is available from The Armory at
http://www.the-armory.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/corbon.html

Neither is cheap, but you MUST get enough to be SURE your gun functions with it. It's your neck.

 

[jc2]

Double Tap's 10mm ammo greatly outperforms the 357 Mag, in the same sized guns, both ballistically and for recoil control.

Not hardly! Check your facts. When you compare similar "designer" ammunition (like Buffalo Bore's), the .357 Magnum barely (not enough to make a difference) outperforms the 10mm in similar sized weapons.