Cowboy action SAA FAQ?

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DunedinDragon

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I've got several autoloaders but I've recently started to get interested in getting a cowboy action SAA as well as potentially a lever action rifle, but I really don't know my way around that area too well. Is there some kind of FAQ somewhere that goes into depth about the different manufacturers, quality, best types of calibers, etc?
 
I don't know anywhere to get it predigested, but you can read endless debates on the SASS Wire
http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showforum=12

Basically there are five makers, no matter the brand name:
Colt - Expensive, variable quality (my Gen III .44 is great), has horsie.
Ruger - Strong and rugged, not quite perfect clones, but the New Vaquero isn't too far off.
USFA - Very nice, American made, equal or better than Colt but without horsie.
Uberti - Many US vendors, lots of choices.
Pietta - The Other Eyetalian maker, sold here as Great Western II.

You will see the occasional remaining stock of American Western Arms SAs made by the defunct Armi San Marco plant being blown out at low prices. My Cimarron was made by ASM and is pretty good but they are now getting guns from Uberti, probably an improvement.
 
Don't forget the Taurus Gaucho. I shoot a pair of these in .45 Colt. Very nice.

I also have a Ruger Old Model Vaquero in .45 Colt, but even in the 3.75" length it is much heavier than the Gaucho. (Of course, I can load the real blaster loads in this one if I desire, but that is not needed for CAS.)
 
Yeah, I forgot the Taurus, they seem ok although their metal finish does not look like the US or Eyetalian guns.

And Charles Daly now has a single action. I think it is a Pietta.
 
The hard-core SASS folks up Boise way pretty much universally went for Rugers, due to the cleaner sights and overall more rugged build. .357 was the most common caliber, due to both cost of shooting and the ability to shoot light .38 loads for fast-fast shooting.

That said, they don't really feel right to me... single actions should go click clickity-click click. :)
 
I own both the Taurus Gaucho and Beretta Stampede. They are solid entry-level guns. They have frame-mounted firing pins. I guess since they are imported guns they really can't be any other way. Also the blueing/case-colored hardening is very nice, and they both have that traditional four click sound if that matters to you. Of the two, my Gaucho has a noticeably nicer action/trigger. Mine are chambered in .357 so I can shoot the much cheaper .38 cowboy reloads.

Tex
 
The Taurus Gaucho sounds like it might be the ticket. I already own a Taurus PT111 Millenium and I'm pretty pleased with it for the price. Hopefully the Gaucho reflects the same kind of low pricing so I can actually afford to get two of them. I had looked at the Cimmaron Model P and was very impressed by the workmanship, but it gets up around $900 for two of them.

How critical is it that I get two, or can I get started with just one?
 
DunedinDragon said:
The Taurus Gaucho sounds like it might be the ticket. I already own a Taurus PT111 Millenium and I'm pretty pleased with it for the price. Hopefully the Gaucho reflects the same kind of low pricing so I can actually afford to get two of them. I had looked at the Cimmaron Model P and was very impressed by the workmanship, but it gets up around $900 for two of them.

How critical is it that I get two, or can I get started with just one?

Hate to be the one to break it to you but most of the entry level guns are in the $350-450 price range. The Gaucho is $400ish. I've read a nice review of the Heritage Rough Rider, and it's supposed to be on the lower end of that range, but not by much.

You will need two six-shooters for a single stage if you are shooting SASS. You might be able to pick up some used or borrow one at first depending on the club, but you'll need two eventually. The price range for a full battery of two six guns, one lever action and a shotgun is about $1000-1200 if you buy new but entry level. One the upside, you'll meet a really nice class of people shooting cowboy action. Just try and avoid getting bit by the costume bug, that get's really expensive. :what:

Tex
 
The New Vaq is a damned fine gun as long as you can get around the fact that it doesn't "sound right" (no mid-clicks on the hammer cock) and that the operating drill is a bit off (you leave the hammer down, open the loading gate, eject and reload from there).

Ruger has been doing the cylinders on a different process which appears to be more accurate and isn't producing undersize throats on the 45s. Mine in 357 is an excellent shooter, dead on windage, small groups, just a bit low so you can file the front for your loads.

What the New Vaq does right is that they've put a spring-loaded "dimple" in that aligns the cylinder bores with the loading gate on each click. Modifying the gun for full reverse-spinning while still getting that click is a snap.

The frame and grips are now finally the same size and feel as a Colt SAA. But it'll take all the various Old Vaquero/Blackhawk/Superblackhawk grip frames, triggers and hammers so you can mod the thing to hell and gone :). Belt Mountain is shipping improved base pins for the New Vaq. Basically it's already got more aftermarket support than the Gaucho and Stampede combined and I don't think that will change any time soon.

What else...for some reason stainless New Vaqs are somewhat hard to come by. The color-case artificial coloring process isn't the greatest cosmetically but Ruger seems to have improved it from their earlier process in terms of rust resistence. Their first gen process appears to somehow *accellerate* rust (!) or at least offered no protection at all. Mine is basically a smoky gray all over, looks rather nice to my eye but doesn't look at all traditional :).
 
May I suggest a used USFA Rodeo? I got one in .45 Colt, 5+1/2" barrel, for under $400. It came with a case color hardened hammer, too. This is the exact same gun as USFA's $1,000 SAA, but without the fancy blue/CCH finish. The workmanship is absolutely flawless and it looks/feels/shoots just like a Colt SAA at 25 percent of the Colt's cost.

Look on Guns America, Gun Broker or your local shop for a good deal.
 
I like the Italian Colt copies batter than the Rugers, but I'm not a CAS shooter, and I don't log as many rounds through mine. I have an Armi San Marcos/AWA Longhorn .357mag that I use as a walking-around the countryside gun, sometimes a carry gun, and just a GP .357/.38.

I don't have a complaint about the Rugers, it's just personal taste - they are well built, but the old Vaq I owned felt too big and heavy , and the action just felt "mushy" to me.
The Colt types feel right to me, and I'm very happy with my spagetti revolver.
If you can, handle a few different brands before you make your choice - it may help you make your decision.

Enjoy.

Mark
 
i have the Basic Stampede (blued with plastic/rubber grips) with the 5 1/2 inch Barrel in .357 Mag, haven't got around to shooting it yet...Love it though!

in SASS can you carry a cartridge revolver and a Cap and Ball for the 2 sixguns requirement?
 
TrafficMan said:
in SASS can you carry a cartridge revolver and a Cap and Ball for the 2 sixguns requirement?

Hmmmm ... good question. I don't have the rulebook handy, and I've never seen it done. In general, though, you can mix revolvers from different categories. If you shoot both a "traditional" (fixed sight) and a "modern" (adjustable sight) revolver, for instance, you would compete in the modern category. I'd think that most any club would allow you to shoot both a traditional or modern cartridge gun along with a cap-and-ball, but you'd be competing in the category appropriate for the cartridge gun (traditional or modern). To compete in the Frontiersman category, you need two cap and ball revolvers.

They might not let you do that in a SASS-sanctioned state, regional or national match, but the monthly matches held by local clubs tend to take a "run what ya brung" approach, as it's all about having fun.
 
I agree with Father Knows Best. I'd say that you would be allowed to shoot that that configuration in most clubs in the country.

I looked at the tenth edition of the SASS Shooters Handbook, and while it doesn't directly address your question, I think that it obliquely does by not specifically disallowing it.

Basically, what category you shoot in is determined by whatever category your guns fit into. If you have one cap and ball and one cartridge firearm you'll fit into either Modern, Traditional or Frontier Cartridge.

If either firearm has adjustable sights then you'll be in Modern.

If they have traditional sights, but you are shooting blackpowder cartridges out of the SAA then you'll be in Frontier Cartridge.

Otherwise the SAA places you in the Traditional category.

Tex
 
If Trafficman is 49 or older, then he would probably shoot in an age based category anyway, and nobody is going to care what guns he is shooting.

Heck, if you go someplace that won't let you use the C&B, I bet that some pard will let you borrow one of his revolvers.
 
Another really good place to get this information is at one of the local matches in your area. When I was first getting started I talked to some of the shooters (nicest people in the world) and asked all the questions I could think of. Everyone I talked to gave me a lot of really good info. Most offered to let me use their firearms too.

The local match I go to has a big mix (Ruger, Colt, EAA, cap and ball, ETC.)
I use Ruger Vaqueros Birdheads in 45LC. I also have 4 5/8" Vaqueros in 357 for when I can not reload some 45LCs. I wish you luck in all your upcoming decisions in this very addictive sports


Cap Masters
SASS #44439
 
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