Cowboy Ammo Good For Self/Home Defense ?

[35 Whelen]

I'm glad we're back on track.

When I think of SD ammo in the vein cowboy loads, I'm thinking of .44 and .45 calibers. Sure they're slow, but they fire big, heavy bullets and one of the presumed advantages of such bullets is their ability to penetrate even when striking bone. I think the former references to their penetration in wood should be, if nothing else, an anecdotal evidence to the potential of such bullets in SD situations.

Now if we're talking .38 Specials and such, well, all I'd say is they're better than nothing at all! I'm on the last chapter of the classic read "Sixguns" by Elmer Keith. There is so, so much enlightening information in there regarding cartridges, bullet weight, bullet style, etc.. I'd highly recommend it to anyone who shoots a revolver...or auto for that matter.

35W

 

[leeroy71]

It would seem The High Road is not as traveled as the Low Road. Skeeter Skelton, Elmer Keith and many other notable writer/hunters have proven the point suffecently enough for me long ago.

 

[35 Whelen]

It would seem The High Road is not as traveled as the Low Road. Skeeter Skelton, Elmer Keith and many other notable writer/hunters have proven the point suffecently enough for me long ago.

Really? Neither Skelton nor Keith used RNFP bullets at relatively low velocities, which are the subject of this post. They both championed SWC's. Skeeter's load for his .44 Special ran a 240 gr. SWC around 950 fps while Keith's ran them around 1200 fps in the .44 Special and 1000 in the .45 Colt. Well, let me back up a bit...Keith did use an RNFP in the 45 Colt early on, but stated it wasn't a good killer. You should read his first book. Fascinating.

35W

 

[leeroy71]

I must apologize. You are correct. After I posted this, I realized my error. I just couldn't figure out how to delete it.
Open mouth caught the foot again.

I was trying to say that CraigC's point has already been proven. Now let us get back on the topic and I will quit higkjacking.

 

[35 Whelen]

Been there, done that too.... moving along.

 

[Gun Master]

Cowboy & Other Self/Home Defense Ammo

I'm glad we're back on track.

When I think of SD ammo in the vein cowboy loads, I'm thinking of .44 and .45 calibers. Sure they're slow, but they fire big, heavy bullets and one of the presumed advantages of such bullets is their ability to penetrate even when striking bone. I think the former references to their penetration in wood should be, if nothing else, an anecdotal evidence to the potential of such bullets in SD situations.

Now if we're talking .38 Specials and such, well, all I'd say is they're better than nothing at all! I'm on the last chapter of the classic read "Sixguns" by Elmer Keith. There is so, so much enlightening information in there regarding cartridges, bullet weight, bullet style, etc.. I'd highly recommend it to anyone who shoots a revolver...or auto for that matter.

35W

I like your wood and bone comparison being taken into consideration, after all the gel talk. That is not to say that gel doesn't have it's place in human body density. Wood is wood, and gel is gel, and never the twain shall meet.

I believe the .38 Special may not be the most excellent hunting choice, but that it is a viable SD caliber, especially coming from a 3" or 4" (or longer barrel).

BTW, thanks for the reference to Elmer Keith's "Sixguns". I plan to check it out.

 

[35 Whelen]

BTW, thanks for the reference to Elmer Keith's "Sixguns". I plan to check it out.

Absolutely check it out. Some of the information is outdated, but that's mostly reloading equipment and his talk of the "new" revolvers that are now 60 years old. I don't know why I didn't read this book 40 years ago. Oh wait...I was busy reading my fathers Jack O'Connor books!

35W

 

[silicosys4]

Here is an interesting article from the infamous box o' truth, comparing penetration in .45 colt

http://www.theboxotruth.com/the-box-o-truth-28-cowboy-pistols-and-the-box-o-truth/

Keith style cast bullets, a factory RNFP, and a Blazer JHP. All were at about 900fps.
The results in a nutshell;
The JHP and RNFP both penetrated roughly the same distance with the RNFP going through 5 jugs to the JHP's 4... while the Keith style bullet sailed through the entire box of 6 jugs and out.
I was expecting the RNFP to penetrate better, considering it was fired at standard velocity. I was expecting penetration on par with the Keith style bullet.
The RNFP also did not deform at all.
The JHP expanded but not as much as I'd have thought. A better JHP like a gold dot would probably show more expansion. The overall profile of the JHP definitely looked like it would do more tissue damage on the way through though.
I wonder how much the 2" or so longer barrel used for the JHP helped, if any...would have been nice if they used the same gun for all three rounds.
The Keith bullet...definitely not a slouch in penetration, to the point that I'd be concerned about overpenetration in a SD scenario. Obviously a great woods or hunting round though.

The results were interesting, and I expected to see much more penetration from the RNFP. If that is representative and not a fluke, at 750 fps from a cowboy type load I would think you'd get even less, although, as they mentioned, probably enough to pass FBI criteria.

 

[gamestalker]

They're certainly more effective than throwing rocks, and I for one won't stand in front of one and volunteer to assess them.

Consider this, the 45 acp typically runs well under 1000 fps, yet it is also considered as very effective as a SD cartridge. Therefore, I certainly wouldn't consider a heavy bullet at 800 fps as non lethal, it's no doubt gonna leave a mark.

GS

 

[wheelyfun66]

I saw some "Cowboy" ammo at my local gun shop.....
But since I live in the overly populated East Coast region, there ain't nary a cowboy around.......
Now if they had "Gansta" ammo....I'd buy plenty!