Cracked brass... too cold?

[KBintheSLC]

It has been bitter cold around here for the past few days, and yesterday was no exception at about 18f for the high and about 2f for the low. I decided to toss my guns in the trunk an go fire off a few at the nearby range on my lunch break. After sitting in the trunk for most of the morning, they were cold... very cold. So I figured I would first shoot my S&W 637 j-frame since it was IWB and warm while I waited for the others to thaw out.

Well, even though the gun was warm, the ammo was not. I removed my regular carry loads from the cylinder and placed a single 125g +P Golden Saber in followed by a pair of CCI shotshells that were in the car. Well, the GS fired alright but on ejection I noticed that the case cracked/split from the neck down to about half way to the rim. The CCI shotshells did not crack, perhaps due to the aluminum cases warming up faster than the nickel-plated brass of the GS.

I have never seen a cracked case in a revolver using new factory ammo, so I figured it must have been the fact that the ammo was too cold when I fired it. After 3-4 hours in the single digit temps that morning, is it possible that this could have made the metal case too rigid to properly expand to the cylinder walls?

 

[rcmodel]

No.

Military ammo is subjected to much colder temperatures in the artic then anything we can experiance here in the lower 48, and cracked brass due to cold is not one of the problems they have.

If a case neck cracked, it was due to faulty or defective brass, not cold weather.

While a cracked case is not especially normal the first time it is fired, it is pretty common when reloading & sizing once-fired brass to find a few cracked.

rc

 

[Jim K]

Was this only one round, or did other cases split as well? I don't recall any tests on the cold factor in that regard. How about writing to the ammo company and ask them if they have any data?

FWIW, case splitting in a proper chamber is normally the result of a defect in the brass draw or some internal factor like acid from the powder eating the case from inside.

Jim

 

[SalchaketJoe]

A couple of weeks ago at the range my wife was firing the security six with some light .38 specials that I had reloaded. From what I saw and heard, nothing was out of the ordinary. When I went to eject the shells, the ejector wouldnt go easy. I hit it a little harder and out they came, but one was split all the way down the side.

My theory: this was once fired brass, mostly from the same box but this one was one of the odd pieces. I think when I was crimping bullets in place, that case may have been a little longer causing it to crack or buckle the case a little. Fired fine, but then split the case.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Have I got news for you! Several years ago I got several thousand new brass in .38 Super, Remington brand, from the CMP at Camp Perry Ohio. Why they had surplus, new, .38 Super brass, I don't know, but it was a good deal. Well, I loaded a thousand or more, and put it on the shelf. Most was loaded with Remington 124gr Golden Sabre bulk bullets. When I started shooting it, I noticed cracked brass. Then I examined it, and at least 15-20% of the LOADED brass was cracked. It had cracked AFTER loading, but before shooting. I sent several boxes of loaded rounds to Remington so they could examine it, as it was apparent that the brass was too brittle. They sent it back to me and told me there was nothing they were going to do about it. I couldn't believe it. SO, I am sure if you complain, it is not the FIRST time they have dealt with it. Pleae use my name (I will send to you) and info to go after Remington on this. I have been waiting for someone to come forward with the same problem. Sorry it happened to you, too.

 

[KBintheSLC]

Yeah... this was the only one of the GS's I fired that day. It was a spare cartridge that I had floating around. However, I have fired a few of cylinders from the same lot before to test its function in my gun. It is hard to imagine it was from the cold since many a war have been fought in this type of cold. But I couldn't come up with anything else since the rest of the rounds in this lot worked fine at room temperature.

As for sending it back, I doubt I'll give Remington a hassle over one round. I have afterall used the GS line for years in many calibers without a hitch. This could have just been a fluke.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

For all of you, I quit using Remington for my brass purchases. They were shameless. All I asked for was replacement for the 2000 cases I purchased, and ultimately had to throw out. I pulled over 500 bullets, and probably just shot the rest, knowing they were cracked, or would crack (mot of them did). If it had not been for the "good" deal I got on price ($50/M at the time), I would have really been soaked. I probably paid $10-
$15 just to ship them 100 rounds of ammo for inspection, too.

 

[hardluk1]

I have some hot 44 reloads that have been harded with reloading and have meet there limits. About every other has split on the first cyclinder full, shoot several more in a h&r and 3 split some gona brake them down and toss the brass.

 

[Sport45]

Well, even though the gun was warm, the ammo was not.

Brass is a very good conductor of heat and the gun was warm. By the time you pulled the trigger the brass was warm too and heat was flowing into the still-cool bullets. I'm thinking the brass cracking was not related to the ammo temperature.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Anyone else had a problem with REMINGTON brass, in particular?

 

[Suwannee Tim]

I don't think it is worth the effort of trying to find and produce the data to back this up but here is the opinion:

As you heat a metal it becomes softer and as you cool it is becomes harder. Steel at a red heat is obviously softer than the same steel at room temperature. There is a temperature below which the hardness of metals don't change much. This temperature is well above room temperature for steel and aluminum but is well below room temperature for lead and brass. The first conclusion is that brass is less ductile at cold temperatures than at room temperature. There is also a temperature below which some alloys become "brittle" which is well below zero for steel. I don't know if cartridge brass is one such alloy but if it is the temperature is probably less than -50 F. Aluminum and copper do not become brittle at low temps. The cold temperature could have had a contributing effect. The main cause was that the cases were defective though this defect, split necks is relatively harmless. I have seen factory ammo split two or three times. Brass gets harder with age and the time scale is in the range of decades. Brass that was perfectly serviceable when new can spontaneously split after many years.

 

[Drail]

I have never like Remington's brass for reloading. The primer pockets don't seem to be sized correctly for any other brand of primer but Remington.

 

[mete]

Possibles - defective brass
improperly annealed brass
exposed to corrosive chemicals especially ammonia or other nitrogen compounds

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

"Possibles - defective brass
improperly annealed brass
exposed to corrosive chemicals especially ammonia or other nitrogen compounds " My point exactly. It came from the factory that way, whatever was wrong with it.

 

[tekarra]

Brass would not split due to temperature. Rather the split would be due to work hardening, such as multiple re-sizing during reloading without annealing, or due to season cracking. Season cracking is cracking in brass due to exposure to ammonia. A lot of cleaning products contain ammonia so one must be sure to store brass away from cleaning products. Ammonia contact may be from vapours and not necessarily contact with liquid ammonia.

The discovery of season cracking in brass is a rather interesting story, and yes, it was discovered in the storage of ammunition.

 

[evan price]

When I see a piece of .38 special brass that has cracked on its first firing, I can almost always guarantee it's a piece of nickle-plated R-P brass. I dunno what it is- brittle alloy, work hardening, the nickle plate process, thin case walls, whatever- I see more cracked nickle R-P brass than any other type by a factor of ten to one.

 

[KBintheSLC]

So now that we have rooted out the cold as being the cause of this issue, do you think that this is something to be concerned about in my carry ammo? I mean, the gun fired just fine and didn't send flames back my way... maybe it could cause extraction problems in extreme circumstances. Does a case failure of this type cause a drop in chamber pressure and velocity?

 

[evan price]

It's not the cold. It's crap brass.