"Craven Irresponsible Politicians and the NRA"

[sig228]

Are those responsible for the death of Richard Martinez's son in Friday's California shootings. Not the mentally deranged shooter who actually pulled the trigger.

This per his short news conference on CNN minutes ago.

I am so sorry for the loss of this man's son, but I AM the NRA and I am NOT responsible.

 

[Joe Demko]

Whose news conference?

 

[vamo]

Lets cut the guy some slack hes probably not a gun guy and lost his kid. Now if a few months down the line hes an activist and singing the same tune then fair game.

 

[sig228]

Whose news conference?

Richard Martinez, father of one of the deceased.

 

[alsaqr]

The shooter is believed to be the son of a movie producer. The father alerted the police to disturbing YouTube videos made by his son. The police took no action. The son bought a gun or guns and murdered six people.

3:28 p.m.: It's being reported that the family of Elliot Rodgers, the suspect in the California mass shooting, called university police a few weeks ago after seeing YouTube videos "regarding suicide and the killing of people" posted by Rodgers online.

http://news.yahoo.com/suspect-mass-...ased-threatening-youtube-video-143400839.html

 

[Joe Demko]

I watched as much of his video as I could stomach. He was a very, very self-centered person.

 

[hfl73]

I saw the news conference. This type of "journalism" does nothing for the victims' families. Its only purpose is to garner ratings. We see this all the time on local channels also. A grieving family member has a microphone thrust in his/her face and gives an emotional statement. It is difficult to watch and makes me wonder why any one in such a state of mind would agree to talk to the press. The news channel gets their story then on to something else. I feel for the their loss and pray for them, but I don't need to be shown how difficult it is to lose a loved one.

 

[Tirod]

Craven irresponsible politicians and the NRA?

Gee, I have to agree.

If they had been doing the job right, we'd have mandatory military service. Most of the adult males in our society would have a working knowledge of firearms, know their physical limitations at the extremes of human endurance, and have a sense of their place in society. It wouldn't be inflated self image pumped up by self indulgent taxpayers support of undereducating school systems.

And we'd all graduate from our two years in Basic Training with our own free assault rifle, plus a few thousand rounds to fire annually at the local range. When someone was called up for service, there would be little need for reinforcement training and the deployment would be shorter. Foreign countries would know we are their with some cut and dried Rules of Engagement and likely be forceful in our actions, plus considerate in our response.

Yes, some of us are in complete agreement. Craven politicians and the NRA aren't doing enough. If they were, we'd never see this on the news.

 

[HexHead]

I feel no sympathy for Martinez. He lost that with his irresponsible statement. Funny how CNN didn't interview the father of one of the knife victims.

 

[hso]

The shooting took place in California, the model for gun prohibitionists. The murderer's family notified law enforcement before the shooting of a threatening video and law enforcement interviewed the murderer and released him without further action. Perhaps someone might blame the politicians in California and the law enforcement authorities for not having done something to have prevented the shooting spree this lunatic carried out, but I don't see how the NRA gets dragged into this.

 

[plmitch]

Interesting opinions........

 

[Potatohead]

Craven irresponsible politicians and the NRA?

Gee, I have to agree.

If they had been doing the job right, we'd have mandatory military service. Most of the adult males in our society would have a working knowledge of firearms, know their physical limitations at the extremes of human endurance, and have a sense of their place in society. It wouldn't be inflated self image pumped up by self indulgent taxpayers support of undereducating school systems.

And we'd all graduate from our two years in Basic Training with our own free assault rifle, plus a few thousand rounds to fire annually at the local range. When someone was called up for service, there would be little need for reinforcement training and the deployment would be shorter. Foreign countries would know we are their with some cut and dried Rules of Engagement and likely be forceful in our actions, plus considerate in our response.

Yes, some of us are in complete agreement. Craven politicians and the NRA aren't doing enough. If they were, we'd never see this on the news.

Nice post Tirod.

 

[JR47]

The entire "disturbing video" and the police "who did nothing" are red herrings. The son of a movie producer, one who worked on violent movies, who drove a $50K BMW, and had no obvious mental issues isn't going to be led handcuffed from his apartment for a mental evaluation. In point of fact, it's such benevolent protection that is the subject of another thread, where they feel that the Police's decision was wrong.

In today's world, the culture is much darker than at any time in my life. Heroes are at the least as flawed as the villains, and the media hypes ever more violent, and even blatantly illegal actions, in the entertainment industry.

Then we wonder why young people emulate many of the scenes in these games and movies?

The NRA has nothing to do with this man's problem. Nor have nameless politicians. He couldn't being himself to blame the real villain in this piece, his son.

I wonder if, before he was visited by wanton and senseless violence, he and his ilk had ever raised their voices to protest the criminal violence of less affluent neighborhoods? Or was it always something that "couldn't happen here". Sort of like watching the movies he helped direct?

There are any number of cities near him where such violence wouldn't have attracted much attention beyond the local eleven o'clock news.

California, as was mentioned, has some of the toughest gun laws in the nation. They have that "universal background check". They have a roster of allowable firearms, a magazine capacity limit, laws regarding transporting loaded weapons, even laws about offensive knives. Yet, it matters not to the criminal, or the insane. The first we plea-bargain to freedom, the second we temporarily hospitalize.

Note how the media focuses on his use of a firearm. They pay lip service to the fact that in his spree HALF of his total was with a knife, the last person killed by a gun was the shooter, committing suicide. The rest were injured by the man running them down with his car. Also note that today, in any spree shooting, the death toll always includes the shooters suicide. Great way to spice up the death toll.

 

[Sol]

Craven irresponsible politicians and the NRA?

Gee, I have to agree.

If they had been doing the job right, we'd have mandatory military service. Most of the adult males in our society would have a working knowledge of firearms, know their physical limitations at the extremes of human endurance, and have a sense of their place in society. It wouldn't be inflated self image pumped up by self indulgent taxpayers support of undereducating school systems.

And we'd all graduate from our two years in Basic Training with our own free assault rifle, plus a few thousand rounds to fire annually at the local range. When someone was called up for service, there would be little need for reinforcement training and the deployment would be shorter. Foreign countries would know we are their with some cut and dried Rules of Engagement and likely be forceful in our actions, plus considerate in our response.

Yes, some of us are in complete agreement. Craven politicians and the NRA aren't doing enough. If they were, we'd never see this on the news.

Hmmm, I have to disagree.

No matter what, under any and all circumstances, a society always has a criminal element. It can't be bred out, it can't be bought out and can't be taught out. A society will always have a rogue element and there's no test to determine future criminality in an individual.

I'd rather that criminal element to stay the static course of their choices.
The criminal element certainly doesn't need military style training that would probably bolster their "kill count".

As for the gun and 1000 rounds, anybody can acquire that with a little hard work.

 

[vamo]

In today's world, the culture is much darker than at any time in my life. Heroes are at the least as flawed as the villains, and the media hypes ever more violent, and even blatantly illegal actions, in the entertainment industry.

Then we wonder why young people emulate many of the scenes in these games and movies?

This was an entitled little fill in the blank throwing a temper tantrum. Its not because he played too much Call of Duty or watched too many Tarantino flicks. I've grown up on a diet of this kind of entertainment and have thus far not had any desire to fire randomly into crowds.

 

[Duff_McGruff]

Hmmm, I have to disagree.

No matter what, under any and all circumstances, a society always has a criminal element. It can't be bred out, it can't be bought out and can't be taught out. A society will always have a rogue element and there's no test to determine future criminality in an individual.

No, but I do believe so much of this kind of event is being fostered by the way our society treats its youth. These young men have been brought up their whole life being told they are a special snowflake and they are entitled to success. When the real world hits them full force, these largely immature individuals lash out, blaming others because nothing bad could possibly be their own fault. They have no coping skills or the ability to work through tough life situations.

This particular individual went on a killing spree because he got turned down for dates! How much more narcissistic and entitled can you get?? Rather than think, "how can I improve to make myself more desirable?" - maybe hit the gym, improve your social skills... his first thought was "I'll kill you all for not accepting me just the way I am!" - because that's what our modern society teaches them. "Everyone is special and perfect and equal". Tirod's suggestion may not eliminate this mindset from all individuals but it would put a large majority in their place.

 

[HexHead]

The entire "disturbing video" and the police "who did nothing" are red herrings. The son of a movie producer, one who worked on violent movies, who drove a $50K BMW, and had no obvious mental issues isn't going to be led handcuffed from his apartment for a mental evaluation. In point of fact, it's such benevolent protection that is the subject of another thread, where they feel that the Police's decision was wrong.

I foresee lawsuits against the Sheriff's Department for their Deputies dropping the ball. Warranted or not.

He couldn't being himself to blame the real villain in this piece, his son.

Again, the guy making statements was the father of a victim, not the shooter. His father has made no statement, having his attorney offer condolences to the families affected.

 

[AlexanderA]

HexHead wrote:

I feel no sympathy for Martinez. He lost that with his irresponsible statement.

Seriously? The man's son had just been killed and he was speaking with his emotions. If he had time to consider things calmly, he might have realized that no proposed legislation would have prevented what happened.

We, as gun owners, need to show some basic human sensitivity in situations like this. The NRA wisely has a policy of not making statements until emotions have cooled.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Cooling off.....

I don't agree with the victim's father's remarks but let's all cut him some slack. He's dealing with a serious tragedy & is upset/emotional.

I can respect him for expressing his views & hope he can grieve without any critics or finger-pointing.
We(gun owners/2A supporters) can take the high road, on this issue.

Rusty

 

[km101]

This was the statement of a grieving father who has just had his world ripped apart. He felt that he needed to lash out at someone. Unfortunately, he has picked the wrong targets. We should consider his words and actions against this background. I agree that we should "cut him some slack" now.

 

[Joe Demko]

Cooling off is a great idea. Especially for us. Martinez is griefstricken and not necessarily thinking clearly. Nobody here has any such excuse. Slogan spouting, chest-thumping, and dominance displays aren't what we need right now. Anything that gives us the appearance of not caring how many die, or that we lack empathy, works against us. Display some quiet dignity, at least until people can bury their dead. You'll have plenty of opportunity to heap invective on Martinez later, when you'll look like less of a jerk for doing so.

 

[Cee Zee]

"Everyone is special and perfect and equal". Tirod's suggestion may not eliminate this mindset from all individuals but it would put a large majority in their place.

What is this "in their place' thing? People ARE special. Entitled - no way. But special - yes. And this isn't some caste system where you are going to be a farmer forever and all your kids forever. That isn't what made America great. You are what you can be, not what your "place" says you are.

The culture is to blame this time. It's not usually easy to tell exactly what was going through the head of these monsters but this time he made it very clear. He's under the impression he has the right to use someone else for his own desires. Hollywood still preaches 1970's morality and they never bother mentioning that we live in a post AIDS world. Things are different and the teenage quest to lose their virginity is not what it once was. It never should have been that. Anyone who's paid attention knows that by now and almost everyone with a brain knows you can't have that Animal House type attitude about sex anymore. How many "I wanna lose my teenage virginity" movies have they made already? It's a theme that arouses every kid with raging hormones and reinforces their thinking that casual sex is ok. It's a lowest common denominator type thing. But it's a lot more fantasy than it once was. Sure people still do those things but not like it was. If you lived through the 1970's as a young person you'll know what I mean. Trust me sex was everywhere in those days and the price is still being paid by many. Not just AIDS but herpes, warts, etc. etc. etc..

But Hollywood still tells young men they should go on a quest to lose their virginity. Dumb thing to do. Morality is heading back to the 1950's style where fewer people were into casual sex. I know there are still plenty of people out there messing around but not in the numbers we saw before and especially among people with the intelligence to recognize the risks. And that bozo was hitting on college girls, who of course are generally are more intelligent than your local bar fly. They just don't act like they once did.

That kid grew up smack in the middle of Hollywood thinking. It's no wonder he thought he was entitled to sex. Hollywood is way more responsible than the NRA. CA has passed stricter gun laws than almost all other states yet people still died. And if the guy didn't have a gun at all he would have still killed a lot of people with that knife.

As for the father and his news conference you can't expect him to be pro-gun at this point. But the plain fact is that the shooter is exactly the kind of person we need a gun to protect ourselves from. And of course there are other needs for guns. The founding fathers always knew we would pay a price for owing weapons but it's a price worth paying considering the benefits you get. Still I wouldn't say a word to that father and I won't criticize his comments other than to say I think he's wrong.

 

[CatManDo]

IMO; Mr Martinez expressed his TRUE feelings. A true tragedy by anyone's standards and I do sympathize with his situation. Time will tell, but my money goes on him being a poster boy for the Anti's.

 

[JayPee]

Mr. Martinez deserves our sympathy and compassion. His words were those of a grieving, outraged father of a murdered child. Love and patience are our best options here. If he becomes an advocate for unreasonable gun controls in the future, we should deal with it in the future - now isn't the time.

 

[plmitch]

Mr Martinez expressed his TRUE feelings. A true tragedy by anyone's standards and I do sympathize with his situation.

Now this is an intelligent statement.