Create the Perfect Service Pistol

[Badger Arms]

Okay, I'll limit the thread to 9mm pistols. Please list the features that you would like and in what combination on a service pistol. For the sake of brevity, you can leave out features that I think should be mandatory such as a threaded muzzle and accessory rail. Anything else is fair game.

1) Barrel Length
2) Safety Types: trigger, grip, decocking, magazine, etc.
3) Sights: tritium, ghost ring, etc.
4) Frame Compositioin: plastic w/inserts, steel, aluminum, etc.
5) Magazine composition: plastic, steel, stainless, etc.
6) Finish
7) Indicators: loaded chamber, striker/hammer cock indicator
8) Hammer or Striker fired... or another style?
9) Breech System: Browning, Beretta, Rudd/Pederson, Roller-Locked, Gas Operated, Gas retarded blowback, rotary, etc.

Feel free to name your perfect 9mm pistol if it exists and any changes you'd make. Also feel free to add any features you feel relevant.

 

[Badger Arms]

Well, I might not be first, but here goes.

1) Barrel Length: 4"
2) Safety Types: Trigger, Grip, Manual decocking lever/cocked-and-locked safety
3) Sights: Three Dot Tritium
4) Frame Compositioin: Plastic with steel locking block/slide rails
5) Magazine composition: Stainless Steel with matte black finish and plastic baseplate
6) Finish: Stainless steel slide and barrel with matte black finish
7) Indicators: Loaded Chamber, Striker Cock Indicator. Both should be tactile and visual
8) Hammer or Striker fired... or another style: Second-strike-capable Striker
9) Breech System: Pederson Delayed Blowback as in the Remington Model 51

The advantages of the above gun are that it has a fixed barrel (accurate and makes suppressor mounting a cinch) and you can locate the action spring around the barrel. Making this part out of titanium eliminates any heat problems experienced by similar guns in the past.

 

[jercamp45]

Hmmmmmmmm

Limited to 9m/m's?
Compete with JMB?
The perfect service pistol already exists...and is in the hands of a few American service men and elite law enforcement units(and on my hip right now).
It ain't a Nine...It ain't got a decocker.....It ain't got no plastic frame.....and it ain't got no high cap mags. Delta has it, Marine Spec Ops has it, LAPD SWAT has it, FBI HRT has it.
And I have Mine........



Jercamp45

 

[Delmar]

Delta has it, Marine Spec Ops has it, LAPD SWAT has it, FBI HRT has it.

Me too.

 

[Rangegod]

Create the Perfect Service Pistol in 9 MM?

OK.

Take one current productoin Mk III BHP and remove the mag safety.

Done.

JAC

 

[New_comer]

Feel free to name your perfect 9mm pistol if it exists and any changes you'd make. Also feel free to add any features you feel relevant.

I nominate the HK USP9

I love it the way it is... wouldn't change a thing.

Well, ok... a firing pin "upgrade" would be most desirable

 

[TarpleyG]

A GM 1911 with a 9mm conversion kit since you are limiting us to 9mm. No extra FP safety either.

GT

 

[Badger Arms]

Let me explain that the reason I limited the thread was first to prevent all of the posts which say, "Why in my day, we had the 1911 and it was good enough for us!" Yeah, I've got one too but city folk can't be taught to shoot the darned things without hurting their feelings. Besides that, the vast majority modern military service pistols are 9mm including those in the United States Military branches. If we are to replace a 9mm, chances are it will be with another 9mm.

Arguing the merits of the 45 over the 9mm or any of a dozen other cartridges out there muddies the waters and the design features of the individual pistols are often ignored. Truth be known, I'd rather see the service pistols all made in 357 Sig!

So, we've got two posts that thumbed their noses at the spirit of the thread, one vote for the BHP with Mag Safety removed (But it still bites my big hands), one vote for the HK USP, and one for the 1911 in 9mm. Anybody want to take a stab at building your own? Me, I hate ordering from the menu!

 

[El Tejon]

I did this years ago. I cut a pistol out of a block of wood. " The Perfect Police Pistol M91" was my creation.

It was perfect for police or militree service: it was lightweight, it was concealable, it could not malfunction, no training budget was needed, no NDs could occur, and no aggrieved groupies could protest or sue when it was used to perform the indicated response.

 

[Andrew Wyatt]

a 1911, scaled down so it's a 9mm sized single stack, made out of that Liquidmetal stuff. it'd weigh somewhere around 12 ounces, and still be quite durable.


alterntively, a kahr t9, with an acessory rail and provision for a suppressor.

 

[George Hill]

SIG P220

 

[Black Snowman]

CZ 85B would be my 1st choice of existing guns.

Typically a military service pistol just sits on a hip. If the operations a unit is involved in require more frequent use they tend to get just what they want so the ability to mount accessories and supressers aren't really nessisary.

The ambidexterious controls and several other features of the 85 make it quite suited to wide spread deployment with minimal training (what we see today). It's more compact and lighter than the current M9/Beretta 92FS (although only marginally) and has the same capacity.

I really can't think of a way to improve it for a general issue service pistol other than bringing production stateside. I know the CZ-75 and it's varients are used by many European military services and police forces.

If I were going to list specifications from scratch . . . I'd need to be a lot more educated on the subject than I am now

 

[Sean Smith]

I'd say a BHP with no mag safety, bigger thumb safeties and a no-bite hammer, finished in something like Roguard.

 

[Correia]

1) Barrel Length: 4 inches
2) Safety Types: trigger, grip, decocking, magazine, etc: I'm a fan of thumb safeties. If the troops are too stupid to manipulate a manual safety then they have no business being in the military to begin with.
3) Sights: tritium, ghost ring, etc. Going to go off the reservation on this one. Ashley Express sights. Super fast. Easy to use, easy to learn. Much quicker sight picture. The only thing you are giving up is super duper bulls eye accuracy, but this is a service pistol.
4) Frame Compositioin: plastic w/inserts, steel, aluminum, etc. Plastic works. It is cheap. It is durable. It is light. I would suggest steel inserts in the frame.
5) Magazine composition: plastic, steel, stainless, etc. Stainless. This is one case where thin steel works a lot better than fat plastic.
6) Finish: Something super durable and corrosion resistant. There are a bunch of finishes that would work.
7) Indicators: loaded chamber, striker/hammer cock indicator. No need.
8) Hammer or Striker fired... or another style? Hammer. It works. And it gives primers a good solid whack.
9) Breech System: Browning, Beretta, Rudd/Pederson, Roller-Locked, Gas Operated, Gas retarded blowback, rotary, etc. Browing of course. It works, it has been proven to work. And it works good.

 

[VG]

The M11 / P228 is already there......

 

[SnWnMe]

Okay, since you only said 9mm

Here's my iteration of a service pistol:

A single stack Glock (simple gun for the lowest common denominator) in 9mm Winchester Magnum.

Sure let's give it the extras like cocking and geladen indicators.

 

[Spark]

HK USP, but with decock changed to either a seperate lever or from all the way down, to all the way up past safe. So, if you ride the safety, you don't decock accidentally

 

[m14nut]

here we go....



1) Barrel Length... 4"
2) Safety Types: trigger, grip, decocking, magazine, etc... Positive safety with decocker
3) Sights: tritium, ghost ring, etc.... Tritium bar/dot
4) Frame Composition: plastic w/inserts, steel, aluminum, etc... Polymer frame with titanium inserts
5) Magazine composition: plastic, steel, stainless, etc... Stainless mags, all high cap.
6) Finish... NP3 or satin hardchrome only
7) Indicators: loaded chamber, striker/hammer cock indicator...YES
8) Hammer or Striker fired... or another style?...Striker, like a Walther.
9) Breech System... Browning why mess with perfection???

 

[jrhines]

A military service pistol...well, I've got some outside-the-mainstream views on that.

1) Barrel Length - 3.5 to 4 inches.
2) Safety Types - none, trigger cocking self-decocking action.
3) Sights - Conventional post/notch.
4) Frame Composition - Injection-molded Nylon with stainless steel inserts.
5) Magazine composition - Stainless steel, single-stack.
6) Finish - unimportant. Something black and corrosion-resistant.
7) Indicators - none.
8) Hammer or Striker fired... or another style? - Internal hammer, much like the old Colt 1903.
9) Breech System - Browning would be fine.

Closest thing in the real world would be a Kahr P9. Note that this would not be the pistol that I would choose to carry, it's intended as a very simple, concealable, easy-to-shoot sidearm for people who probably aren't going to get a whole lot of training.

- Chris

 

[Fed168]

A 220ST with a 5" barrel, and maybe in 10mm.