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Credit Card Processing Company Rejects Firearms Industry

Discussion in 'Activism' started by The Sheriff, Jan 7, 2008.

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  1. The Sheriff

    The Sheriff Member

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    CREDIT CARD PROCESSING COMPANY REJECTS FIREARMS INDUSTRY

    REFUSES TO PROCESS TRANSACTIONS . . . Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp. are refusing to process any credit card transactions between federally licensed firearms retailers, distributors and manufacturers -- a move which will severely limit available inventory of firearms and ammunition to military, law enforcement and law-abiding Americans.

    The first company to be affected by this decision appears to be firearms distributor CDNN Sports Inc.

    "We were contacted recently by First Data/Citi Merchant Services by a June Rivera-Mantilla stating that we were terminated and funds were being seized for selling firearms in a non-face-to-face transaction," said Charlie Crawford, president of CDNN Sports Inc. "Although perfectly legal, we were also informed that no transactions would be processed in the future, even for non-firearms. I find this very frightening."

    To voice your concern to Citi Merchant Services and First Data Corp., please contact June Rivera-Mantilla at 631-683-7734 or her supervisor Robert Tenenbaum at 631-683-6570.

    To change to an NSSF-affiliated credit card processing program, contact Payment Alliance International at 1-866-371-2273 (ext. 1131).

    [​IMG]
     
  2. h2ojunkie

    h2ojunkie Administrator

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    Robert Tenenbaum is out of the office until Tues Jan 8th, but rest assured he will be returning to a phone call from me informing them how their actions has cost them any future business from myself or my company.

    As a business owner myself, I support citi group's right to choose not to have a gun dealer as a customer. After all, they should have the right to refuse service to anyone.

    However, I take issue with the fact that they are choosing to withold $75,000.00 that is not theirs, from a customer they have told is no longer welcome to do business with them for "the greater of six months, or longer".
     
  3. KMKeller

    KMKeller Member

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    Their logic is completely flawed. I hope he sues their arses off.
     
  4. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Shipping to an FFL across state lines is banned? I love how these idiots make up their own laws. And since when were credit card companies held liable for the legality of particular sales?

    What a bunch of nonsense. Someone at the company is pushing an AGENDA, rest assured. And it has nothing to do with making Citibank money or protecting against risks. I wouldn't be surprised if this person is operating without approval.

    The customer needs to get an attorney who can take a look at their contract of service and contact Rivera's boss.
     
  5. TAB

    TAB Member

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    There is also another letter that is not posted that gave thier reason for the canceling... I would be willing to bet that in his contract with them, it is clearly laid out what you can and can not do. Lots of merchant contracts expressly state that all sales must be person, taking a payment over the phone or via the internet would be a clear violation. Since there is diffrent risks envoled with take internet/mail order/ phone sales, you are charged diffrently.

    Come on guys, don't jump to conclusions with out having all the facts.
     
  6. Mojo-jo-jo

    Mojo-jo-jo Member

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    Citibank has a history of being anti-gun, and went as far as to begin closing accounts of firearms-related businesses in 2000.

    http://ads.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15299
    http://ads.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15298

    After public pressure, they relented and reversed this policy. I guess it's back now, but now cloaked under the veil of preventing "illegal activity."

    IIRC, There was another case sometime around this period (2000-ish) where Citibank charged back a gun purchase to the merchant and refused to process the charge due to their "non-violence" policy. I could not find a cite for this, however.
     
  7. The Sheriff

    The Sheriff Member

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    Credit card companies don't make the laws!
    ...If the transaction is legal, they serve only as a faciltator.
     
  8. k_dawg

    k_dawg Member

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    I have had a credit card for my business with them since 1993, that has monthly turnover in 4 digits.

    I will be calling to verify if this letter is true, and if so, canceling it immediately.
     
  9. 2RCO

    2RCO Member

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    I have a few issues with this and wonder about the validity of this letter/claim.
     
  10. hso

    hso Moderator Staff Member

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    Odd. I just paid for a pistol to be shipped to one of the gun stores I deal with using a credit card and CDNN certainly shipped the pistol. We need a fact check on this before we start burning down Citibank.
     
  11. F4GIB

    F4GIB Member

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    Bankers should not try to be lawyers or they should hire better lawyers.

    It is not illegal to "sell" or "buy" a gun in a face to face or non-face to face transaction interstate, on the internet or whatever. What is illegal is delivery of physical possession of the firearm to a non-FFL without going through the the proper steps (state of residence dealer, face-to-face, NICS check, and so forth). Citibank is confusing a transfer of title with a transfer of possession.

    It is ATF's job to "monitor or track adherence to these gun Control Laws" because they have the training and the legal tools. It is not Citibank's responsibility.
     
  12. armed85

    armed85 Member

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    Did this very large company that is Citibank even consult an attorney before sending that letter?

    Selling a handgun to a person in another state and shipping across state lines has not been banned. CDNN only ships to addresses listed on an FFL as per the BATFE and the law.

    The law is contradictory on this matter. You cannot by law walk into "Bob's Guns Store" in another state from your state of residency, buy a handgun, and take possession of it face-to-face. However, you can buy a handgun from the same "Bob's Guns Store" and have Bob ship that gun to another gun store in your state of residency. That store will then complete an FFL transfer and after passing a NICS background check, you take possession of your handgun.

    The end result is the same, but with more paperwork.

    Withholding $75,000 opens the door for a lawsuit.
     
  13. mekender

    mekender Member

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    http://www.nssf.org/news/fromBP.cfm?BPseq=704

    i saw the story earlier today, and im fairly sure that the contract will have something in it that stipulates that they can void the contract if the merchant participates in business that the CC company feels is immoral

    but that wont make it right for sure
     
  14. Al Norris

    Al Norris Member

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    Unlawful restraint of interstate trade.
     
  15. Charles Daly

    Charles Daly Member

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    This story is definitely true. I spoke with Mr. Crawford at CDNN who later faxed me a copy of the termination letter he received from First Data.

    During a phone conversation that Mr. Crawford had with First Data, First Data told him he was no better than soeone running a brothel, and that if his actions selling guns was not illegal then it was certainly immoral and First Data would have nothing more to do with them. This to a company, CDNN, who pays on average $50,000 in fees to First Data monthly.

    First Data can cancel the contract, that is perfectly legal. I'm not sure of the $75,000 reserve they are taking for 6 months. That would seem extreme to me. However, CDNN will find another credit card processor and First Data will lose about $600,000 in revenue from CDNN's account.

    What we should hope to do here is spread the word of this travesty and make sure anyone in our industry that uses First Data as their credit card processer change immediately. Perhaps First Data will lose several millions of dollars and perhaps the idiot in charge of this policy at First Data will soon be looking for a job. That is about the best outcome we can hope for out of this.
     
  16. mikec

    mikec Member

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    First Data is a privately held company. Here is the owner's web site: http://www.kkr.com/

    I doubt writing them would help any. I think telling the banks that First Data's "ideals" are going to hurt THEIR business might get more response.
     
  17. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    didn't the letter state they would be given until the end of this month before they shut off card processing?
     
  18. Hugo

    Hugo Member

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    Saw on Wikipedia that First Data was publicly traded until October 1, 2007, then it went private. Looks like the new owners are running it into the ground. Sad really. Fortunately there are other processing companies. Use them and screw First Data until they wise up.

    As for Citi, there are other banks to use. Don't give Bigots business. Nuts to them.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2008
  19. Srigs

    Srigs Member

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    I guess I won't be getting that Citibank Visa card. :cuss:

    What a bunch of idiots :banghead:
     
  20. BAT1

    BAT1 Member

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    Who needs laws when the corporate bankers can write their own rules, how arrogant. They just lost a lot of business.
     
  21. Preacherman

    Preacherman Member

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  22. Eightball

    Eightball Member

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    I hope someone gets sued, and fired, and that the company reverses itself.

    It would be unfortunate if wealthy anti gunners did this with EVERY card buisness. Sure, the companies can sue and get it overturned, but that costs time and money, and money isn't infinite in the firearms world.
     
  23. Zak Smith

    Zak Smith Moderator Emeritus

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    To corroborate this, I attempted to get a merchant account through one of my business banks a few weeks ago-- their "partner" was First Data. Although the account agent was helpful and nice enough on the phone, it became clear that they had an issue with firearms transactions, and that dealer-to-dealer transfers paid for by credit card were definitely out.

    The #2 and #3 merchant services providers I talked to had no problem with it. I went with #3.

    -z
     
  24. dmftoy1

    dmftoy1 Member

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    There's a post over on castboolits.gunloads.com where someone says that this decision is now being reconsidered in light of the reaction. I cancelled mine today and was surprised that the account rep said it was the first he'd heard of it and that he thought that it (Citibank's action) was one of the dumbest things he'd seen.
     
  25. mikec

    mikec Member

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    Since First Data is a private company we can't do much to them BUT Citi is a public company. How many here want to buy a block of Citi stock and raise a fuss at their annual shareholders meeting?

    I will buy $250 of stock and sign over my stock voting rights to a proxy. Maybe if we go after a company or two this way the antis will think twice.

    BTW, PETA, an organization that I despise, has used this tactic to their advantage.
     
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