crimp and .44 Rem Magnum

[renaissance]

.44 Rem Magnum
240 grain Magnatech Semi-Jacketet Soft Flat Point
1.600 OAL
11 grains HP-38
Out of a Ruger Redhawk w Leupold scope
25 Yards Bench Rest
For Accuracy

To Crimp or Not????

Just loaded a batch of 50
Sized....and... Flared just enough to allow easy bullet starting
Used a combination Seat / Crimp (Lee)
Had crimp portion set just barely enough to return flared case back to sized diameter
No visible "crimp = case mouth turning into cannenlure {sp?}"
( They Fell in and out of cartridge Max Gauge )

Pushed seated bullet HARD against bench
It did NOT move

Is this enough ??
Literature usually says to "Crimp" ......firmly even ...

What to do?
Crimp or not ?

 

[molonlabe]

here is my understanding. I use 296 with over twice that load so I am assuming what you are using is a faster burning powder. I crimp the crap out of mine because that is what winchester says for safe reliable ignition. With a faster burning powder you should be able to get by with a mild crimp. You don't want them pulling loose under recoil and jamming the cylinder.

 

[Ol` Joe]

Yes you need a crimp on a 44 mag, be sure to roll crimp not taper. The big kickers have a tendancy to have the bullet move outward dureing recoil and you need a good crimp to prevent it. I also know Hodgdon recommends a heavy crimp with H110 which is I`ve been told, the same powder as WW 296 to insure proper ignition.

 

[dleong]

Pushed seated bullet HARD against bench
It did NOT move

Is this enough ??

The only way to find out is to shoot your test reloads.

Bring a set of calipers with you to the range. Load up a cylinder and fire a cartridge. Unload the remaining 5 cartridges and measure their OALs. Reload the five, shoot one, unload and measure the remaining 4 unfired ones. Repeat until all cartridges are fired.

If you measured an increase in the OAL of any of the cartridges, you might need to increase the crimp.

 

[bakert]

Crimp them!! Having a bullet backing out and tying your gun up is a PIA especially with a double action revolver.

 

[KMB8]

Roll Crimp

Definitely roll crimp in the canelure!

 

[Standing Wolf]

Bring a set of calipers with you to the range. Load up a cylinder and fire a cartridge. Unload the remaining 5 cartridges and measure their OALs. Reload the five, shoot one, unload and measure the remaining 4 unfired ones. Repeat until all cartridges are fired.

Yep. Theory is a wonderful thing, but actual measurement is better.

 

[renaissance]

They DID Move!

Tried the;
"measure OAL on 6 "
Load 6
Fire 4
Re-Measure OAL on remaining two.

They DID Move
Not near enough to lock up the Redhawk
but enough to make me decide to Roll Crimp.
Now the question is "How Much Crimp"?
"Firm" is not enough of an answer.

I took a Sized Case
Measured the Inside Diameter
Adjusted my Lee FCD so that it decreased the ID by .01 inch.
Crimping with the
FCD adjusted as above and crimping on a bullet
I can just barely "feel" the roll
( the "edge is rolled off of the case rim)
but not quite "See" it.

Tried to "Measure" the decrease in case Outside Diameter
at the Roll Crimp, but couldn't do it reliably.
Caliper kept sliding off.

Do you all think the .01 change in Inside diameter
(without a bullet)
of the case should yeild a "sufficient" crimp?

Guess the only way to tell is fire another 4 and
look for an increase in OAL of the remaining.

How would YOU "quantify" a "Light/Medium/Heavy crimp" anyhow?

 

[renaissance]

How much is enough ?? Can anyone Quantify ??

I tried the "Push the bullet head against a hard wood bench" thing
the very first time ( without crimping - just removing the flare )
The bullet did NOT move.
Built 50.

But when I:
a. Measured one
b. Inserted in the Redhawk with five others
c Fired the other five, then
d Measured it again.
It had pulled out ~.006

I then set my Lee FCD to where it would reduce the inside diameter of
the case mouth of a sized case .001 (without a bullet).
Went back and Crimped the remaining.

Repeated the test.

The bullet in the measured Cartridge STILL pulled out.
Enduring the recoil of the fired five, increased the OAL of the measured
cartridge from 1.604 to 1.614

Firing five more increased the OAL of the same cartridge
from the 1.614 to 1.624.

Obviously crimping .001 was not enough.

How much IS enough ?
Obviously the answer is "When The Bullets stop pulling out"

How much might that be ??

 

[B36]

I pulled one of my carry loads, a Cor Bon 165grJHP 44 Mag. Crimp was .012 at mouth of case.

I also checked one of my reloads, in 44 Special, a 200gr GD at 1100fps, crimp was .009.

 

[renaissance]

Thank You B36

Thank You B36
I will try .01

I was off by an order of magnitude.
Wow!

I'm curious though....
Just "How" did you determine what the "crimp" Was....
By "Pulling apart" a factory load?

What did you measure
With What
And HOW ?

 

[DJW]

just a thought. take a look at a factory loaded round and crimp your reloads so they look like the factory ones. you don't even have to buy any, just open a box at a retail outlet and look. keep it simple.