Crimping/Seating Hard Time

[chagasrod]

I'm still having a hard time trying to seat & Crimp the bullet at the same time.
Somehow i can't get the proper seating/crimping combination just right without bulging the bottom of the cases.

Here's what i'm thinking:

1-Use the Seater/crimper just to seat the bullet;
2-Use the Lee Factory Crimp die to crimp them.

What do you guys think?


RCBS Carbide Dies
Lee FCD
RCBS Rock Chucker
200g LSWC+7.0g of True Blue.

 

[918v]

I think you may be misinterpreting the appearance of the case as a bulge, when really it is nothing more than an indication of good case tension. Every reloaded case will show the outline of the bullet whenever there is a good amout of case tension present. That is how ammunition stays together- with case tension on the bullet and the resulting friction.

 

[NavyLCDR]

If you have a Lee Factory Crimp Die, why are you trying to do it in one step?

 

[chagasrod]

918v- It's a bulge since it won't fit my gauge or chamber for that matter.

I just can't seat & Crimp at the same time. The cases keep bulging and then i have to pull the bullets, resize the case again, flare the mouth etc etc etc

I'm a newbie and still having a hard time!!!!

 

[chagasrod]

NavyLT- The RCBS Seater/Crimper is supposed to do it. I'm just trying to understand what i'm doing wrong.

I mean, it can be done in one step right???

 

[LiveLife]

I mean, it can be done in one step right???

chagasrod, I use the Lee 3 die set in the Pro 1000 and this is how set up a new die set (yes, the case taper crimp and bullet seating is done on the same die in 1 step).

- On the case flare/powder pour through die, I adjust the flare of the case just enough for the bullet base to not catch the case neck rim

- On the taper crimp/bullet seat die, I first back off the bullet seat knob so I am not pushing the bullet in. I back off the main die ring until I am not taper crimping the flare. I gradually adjust the main die ring until I get all the flaring "tapered" back in so the case neck is straight. Then I work on the bullet seat depth adjustment with a bullet in the case neck. I keep pushing the bullet in until I get the right OAL. If you are crushing the case at this point, you may have too much taper crimp so back off the adjustment on the main die ring. Once you have the right bullet seat depth, you can reapply the taper crimp adjust back in.

Since you are working on a single stage, you just perform these tasks one at a time. As far as I know, FCD is supposed to be used after the taper crimp die, so try taper crimping and bullet seating first with your RCBS die and see how that works out. Then you can use the FCD to add the finishing touch on the case neck, for that "factory crimp" look. I never use the FCD on my range/match loads and my reloads feed/chamber fine.

I hope this helped.

 

[howlnmad]

chagasrod
your problem could be in case length, which is more critical when using the seater die to crimp with and is not the case with the FCD.
If you already have one, why not use it. It has a carbide sizer ring which helps smooth and resize the case after loading. I would not suggest crimping with the sizer and then running them thru the FCD, I did with some 38 rounds and it left a funky crimp. They shot okay but I don't think they would've had it been a rimless round. Just my .02 worth.

 

[Walkalong]

Absolutely no reason in the world you can't seat and crimp .45 ACP in one step using RCBS dies and whatever .45 brass you have. Case length is not a big deal. I use a horrid mix of range brass and have no problems.

Adjust your seater to seat with no crimp. Seat 20 rounds. Now remove the seater stem. Readjust the seater down a hair at a time until it removes the bell on all cases, including the shortest ones, and gives a couple of thousandths of crimp on the longest cases.

Now put the seater stem back in. Adjust it way up so it won't contact the bulet. Run a loaded and properly crimped round into the die. Adjust the stem down until it stops on the bullet. Lower the ram, removing the round from the die. Turn the seater stem only down 1/8" more. You should be set and ready to go.

Load a few rounds and check O.A.L.'s. If needed, adjust the stem only to tweak the O.A.L..

Put the FCD in an envolpoe and mail it to someone who thinks they are the answer to all problems.

Pics

 

[243winxb]

One of your problems is your using"range brass" This gives you different lengths of brass & neck tensions to work with.When you adjust your seating/crimp die, make the die adjustments on the longest piece of brass in the lot. When you bell the case mouth, set the die up on the shortest case of the lot. As i said before >

Make sure your bullet diameter is .452" or .451" for jacketed.
The seating dies inside diameter is to small in front of the crimp. Metal needs to be removed. To test this, bell a case, adjust your vernier calipers so the case will not drop thru it, case hanging by its mouth. Run the case up into the die a small amount. See if the bell is being removed and when.This will keep you from shaving lead off the bullet on seating.

Here's what i'm thinking:

1-Use the Seater/crimper just to seat the bullet;
2-Use the Lee Factory Crimp die to crimp them.

What do you guys think?

You will need to turn the RCBS seating stem all the way down. Then taper crimp in a separate operation.Or modify the RCBS die or send it back to RCBS.

Put the FCD in an envolpoe and mail it to someone who thinks they are the answer to all problems.

FCD not needed IMO. A normal taper crimp die will do just fine.

 

[918v]

NavyLT- The RCBS Seater/Crimper is supposed to do it. I'm just trying to understand what i'm doing wrong.

I mean, it can be done in one step right???

Not really.

In order for seating and crimping to work in one step, all your brass has to be the same length. Brass varies as much as .015" in length in my experience and that amount of variance will screw-up tour seating/crimping process:

For example, a longer piece of brass will hit the crimping part of the die sooner than a shorter one. The case mouth will start to dig into the bullet before it is fully seated. As the bullet is forced deeper with the casemouth digging in, the case walls buckle south of the bullet. The case grows in diameter as a result.

Like 243winxb said, you should adjust your die for the longest piece of brass, but that will mean the shorter pieces won't get crimped as much or at all. Also, this means you have to mike all of your cases to find the longest one. Or you'll have to trim the whole batch to the same length.

I split up the process. I seat first. I crimp second. I crimp by feel in a Lee Hand Press. That particular unit is neat. It has alot less leverage than a bench mounted unit. If you adjust the die deeper than normal, you futher reduce the leverage. The press is so sensitive I can feel the case mouth transition from being flared to straight to crimped. This way I can stop applying pressure when I have the little bit of crimp I need. Best of all, it don't matter how long each case is.

 

[Walkalong]

The tiny amount of taper crimping going on in .45 ACP (which is what he's loading) will allow for case lengths being different. It's no big deal to seat and crimp in the same step with range brass of varied lengths. Range brass is all I use in .45 ACP. I don't have any problems at all, and I don't bother to sort it out by headstamp. Never have.

Case length certainly makes a big difference in seating/crimping in one step when using a heavy taper crimp or a roll crimp, that's for sure.

 

[jfh]

Well--just to add an observation. It may be that rod had the die body set too low--so if he tweaks that up--say an eighth-quarter turn, and then follows Walkalong's instructions, I'll bet he can get rid of the bulge. Assuming, Rod, that your bullets are not grossly oversize....

Jim H.

 

[Historian]

I seat and crimp my S&W .40s with and RCBS seating die. Go with Walkalong's proceedure and you will be able to do it. I too had trouble with cases bulging at first. Adjusted in the same way that Walkalong suggests. I haven't had a problem since.

Historian
________
"A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely undo the liberties of America than the whole force of a common enemy." Samuel Adams

 

[chagasrod]

Thanks to all of you guys. I Think i was applying to much crimp.