45 ACP bullet seating and tamper crimp

[wackemanstackem]

mdi you can crimp and crimp but you are not crimping the case into the bullet you are just straighting out the case ,all you have to do is pull a bullet after and you will see that there is no crimp rings into the bullet.That is why a true crimp is done with a cannelured bullet thats why they are made that way so you can actually crimp the case into the bullet.That is a true crimp like I stated earlier,I crimp all my 45s and 40s but that is just a step that helps keep the bullet firm in its seat.When I seat and crimp my long colts and 460s I am actually crimping.

 

[ljnowell]

mdi you can crimp and crimp but you are not crimping the case into the bullet you are just straighting out the case ,all you have to do is pull a bullet after and you will see that there is no crimp rings into the bullet.That is why a true crimp is done with a cannelured bullet thats why they are made that way so you can actually crimp the case into the bullet.That is a true crimp like I stated earlier,I crimp all my 45s and 40s but that is just a step that helps keep the bullet firm in its seat.When I seat and crimp my long colts and 460s I am actually crimping.

Thats not true at all. I can taper crimp hard enough to put a solid ring into a bullet easy, basically a cannalure. Its pretty easy to do also.

 

[wackemanstackem]

Whatever you say good luck with that ,your using much softer bullets than I.

 

[ljnowell]

Whatever you say good luck with that ,your using much softer bullets than I.

No, not really. I wouldnt do it because it defeats the purpose but its quite easy to do. I have seen people do it with plated, jacketed, and lead. Every so often there is a thread on here with someone over crimping using a taper crimp die and cutting all the way through the plating or "hourglassing" a jacketed bullet. I'm sorry you have never seen this, but it is very easy to do.

 

[Walkalong]

I have seen it as well. It is quite easy to over do a taper crimp on an auto caliber. A heavy taper crimp can be used on a jacketed bullet with or without a cannelure.

 

[wackemanstackem]

Have never done or seen it in my 40 yrs of reloading but the guys I reload with know how do things right! Am sure with people who dont know what they are doing and like to use excessive force anything is possible,like I said you dont actually crimp unless you dont know what you are doing (is what I should have said sorry ).And if you feel you need to crimp a 45 or 40 that hard go for it but dont try to hit a target because if you over crimp you have junk simple as that .And read some manuals about crimping with a non-cannelure bullet and a cannelure bullet and tell me what you read.

 

[ljnowell]

Have never done or seen it in my 40 yrs of reloading but the guys I reload with know how do things right! Am sure with people who dont know what they are doing and like to use excessive force anything is possible,like I said you dont actually crimp unless you dont know what you are doing (is what I should have said sorry ).And if you feel you need to crimp a 45 or 40 that hard go for it but dont try to hit a target because if you over crimp you have junk simple as that .And read some manuals about crimping with a non-cannelure bullet and a cannelure bullet and tell me what you read.

You know, I am going to be the nice guy and tell you, with your attitude you probably arent going to last long. Letting us know how your friends now how to reload and the rest of us need to read up in manuals isnt a real great way for a new forum member to make friends or build credibility. If you arent looking to make friends or have credibility, then why are you here?

That being said, I didnt see myself or Walkalong advocating putting that kind of crimp onto a round. In fact, I can go back and quote myself, if you would like, and show you where I said quite the opposite. We merely responded to your claim that you COULDNT do such a thing. You certainly can, that doesnt mean that its the right thing to do.

 

[wackemanstackem]

Its your view you can and mine you cant if you are going to remove me for my view on something that I have alot of experience with than please do what you think you need to do .I simply dont agree with your view.

 

[ljnowell]

Its your view you can and mine you cant if you are going to remove me for my view on something that I have alot of experience with than please do what you think you need to do .I simply dont agree with your view.

I think we are experiencing a misunderstanding of the fundamental purpose of each others posts. I am not saying that you SHOULD over crimp when using a taper crimp to do such a thing. I am merely stating that if someone were to overcrimp to that extreme, its possible to indent a ring around a bullet or cut the plating or jacketing on a bullet. What I and Walkalong are saying is that yes, its not proper technique, but if someone tries hard enough, they can do it. There have been many times on this forum that someone has posted pictures of the bullets that they did it too.

I'm not sure what exactly you disagree with regarding my view, however. I am saying the exact same thing that you are about taper crimping only being used to remove the bell from a case. I'm also saying that if someone is careless, or doesnt know what they are doing they can easily overcrimp a bullet and damage the bullet doing so. What exact part of that dont you agree with?


Resorting to insulting statements isnt necessary though, and it in fact violates the TOS at THR. No one

 

[Walkalong]

I think there is just a misunderstanding as well, so lets ease up a little.

I went and got a .45 ACP reload out of my ammo bag. It was similar to the round I posted earlier in the thread, except it measured .470 at the case mouth instead of .471 and is a 200 Gr X-Treme instead of a Berrys 230 Gr.

I marked where my .45 ACP taper crimp die ring was locked and then screwed the die body down one more turn and crimped the loaded round. The case mouth was now at .466. I turned the die body down another turn and the case mouth was now at .461. One more turn (Three total) and the handle would not go all the way down as the die body hit the shell plate. The case mouth was now at .458 and the bullet was so loose it spun freely in the case. This is due to the spring back of brass being greater than the spring back of lead. (Which is why a FCD for pistols can at times hurt neck tension)

Then I pulled and measured the bullet. It was now .447 at the base (Started at .4515) and .437 where the die pushed the brass into the bullet.

 

[joneb]

,like I said you dont actually crimp unless you dont know what you are doing

I find a crimp is necessary with some bullet profiles, to get a SWC to run in my Colt series 70 I crimp to .470" at the case mouth.

 

[wackemanstackem]

Fair enough,here are some of my crimps

 

[mdi]

Re-read my post.

I put the term "crimp" in quotations because there are a lot of folks reading that don't understand that using a taper crimp die on a semi-auto cartridge isn't crimping. I would have said "de-flaring", but I think I would have been misunderstood...

 

[Walkalong]

Yep. Any one with a good reloading manual should understand what a taper "crimp" is on a auto caliber.

Not to mention the many times it has been explained here.